286: Pastor Plek and Adrienne are joined by Hayley Hengst on the podcast for a deep episode about the trials of parenting. Together they take a hard look at the balance between keeping their children safe and smothering their independence, all while wrestling with the digital age's snares and the nostalgia of their own, less supervised childhoods. They also tackle tough topics like addiction and recovery and where personal beliefs intersect with cultural movements. It's a candid critique of conservatism sans Christ, and a call for a middle ground in a world where emotions are often dismissed as weakness rather than signals guiding us towards growth.
Got questions? Text us at 737-231-0605!
Like, share, and subscribe! We love seeing and responding to your reviews and comments.
Support the show: https://wbcc.churchcenter.com/giving
286: Pastor Plek and Adrienne are joined by Hayley Hengst on the podcast for a deep episode about the trials of parenting. Together they take a hard look at the balance between keeping their children safe and smothering their independence, all while wrestling with the digital age's snares and the nostalgia of their own, less supervised childhoods. They also tackle tough topics like addiction and recovery and where personal beliefs intersect with cultural movements. It's a candid critique of conservatism sans Christ, and a call for a middle ground in a world where emotions are often dismissed as weakness rather than signals guiding us towards growth.
Got questions? Text us at 737-231-0605!
Like, share, and subscribe! We love seeing and responding to your reviews and comments.
Support the show: https://wbcc.churchcenter.com/giving
Welcome back, thank you. Thank you for not introducing me as your sweet wife this time. I'm happy to be here.
Speaker 2:You're so sweet and also with us is one of the counselors that we're bringing on to make sure we say associate counselor, correct, right, we can't say official counselor, but super excited to have you. Hailey. Hailey Hanks, welcome to our unbelievable, awesome show.
Speaker 3:Thank you, I'm excited to be here.
Speaker 2:We want to talk to us about what it is exactly you do around here, Want to hear about your story and then how you got into counseling and what really who you want to talk to counsel and all that kind of thing.
Speaker 3:Okay, that's a whole lot of questions. It's a lot of questions I'll start with, like who are you, hailey? Who am I?
Speaker 2:Okay Now hold on before you get into that. Adrienne, you knew Hailey Poor.
Speaker 1:Hailey, I know as like a blog.
Speaker 2:Famous person.
Speaker 1:I did so. She wrote for the I Said Moms book. How long did you?
Speaker 3:write for them. I wrote for them for probably four years, kind of off and on, okay, and then I stopped for a while and then I realized I kind of missed it, because I actually really love writing. If I had more time, that is something I would devote a whole lot of time to. But I don't have a whole lot of time and so I would kind of stop writing for Austin Moms blog because I would realize I just don't have time to do this. But then I would miss it and so I would kind of come back off and on.
Speaker 2:But when it was all said and done, probably about four years. I'm not going to lie, I never actually read the Austin Moms blog, but it wasn't for you. You were not the idea.
Speaker 1:But what so? It was great. Yeah, I did read it. I don't know. I think it was back when blogs were cool. You know, that was kind of before podcasts, right.
Speaker 3:You know, before Pastor Black had a podcast. I do kind of like blogs are maybe on their way out or maybe they've been out for a while.
Speaker 1:I think it's the past a little bit they are but I think they're making a comeback. Chris is working on a blog. I am working on a blog.
Speaker 3:I want to discourage you, then, yeah.
Speaker 2:Thank you, you should do that, I should I might have to incorporate your help because of how. She is a gifted writer for you.
Speaker 1:You don't need to be a ghost, you need to be like legit, like, let's like leverage Okay. And so this is where we always gifted. She was funny, her blogs were funny.
Speaker 2:I'm sure she's so funny, I wouldn't know.
Speaker 1:But it was they were. They were witty, they were funny because their mom blogs are like. I wouldn't be someone that would want to read a mom blog.
Speaker 2:But then you saw really that's what I don't know.
Speaker 1:It just sounds like a bad idea, like it sounds like something that would be very lame and about being a mom. And Haley's were not. They were kind of like a bigger picture. They were funny, they were.
Speaker 2:Well, what made her funny? Like what made you go, I think there was a little edge.
Speaker 1:Okay, a little bit of an edge. She wasn't really afraid to say some of the things that, like some moms, are afraid to admit about.
Speaker 2:Oh, so she'd be like perfect Our church.
Speaker 3:Yes, I never wanted to come at it from like the angle of like I'm an expert mom, let me teach other moms Like because, well, that wouldn't have been accurate at all, but also I just would not have that would approach, would have felt weird. So I think I was more like people would always tell me I was very relatable because I was not trying to be an expert in the topic, but more just like here's what I'm dealing with. At my house and here's how I'm handling it. What are you guys doing?
Speaker 1:Kind of like that so it was great and then what was really cool personally for me is I had like three friends, two that I actually knew that were similar. They weren't writers Frost and Mom's blog but they one wrote a book that I loved and then one just she had great posts. Anyway, they both turned super, super progressive Christianity ish. The like both are, have like completely fallen off the bandwagon of their faith and of like core truths and scripture, and so it was cool deconstruction kind of a deal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah and just a lot of political garbage that got tied into everything. And so that what was cool to me is when you kind of stayed. I only knew this right from from like random Facebook feed, but like you stayed consistent in your like where your hope was where, your truth was where, and even though things happened in life that didn't take away from like kind of the message that you had Not like I really knew you at all, but there was.
Speaker 1:You can learn enough, I feel like, from these other people. I learned enough through Facebook to know kind of where they were landing and that was cool to me, like I think it's hard to find somebody that, like 15 years ago, was raw and real and in the little edgy but also funny but also full of gospel truth that then stayed with that as life got hard.
Speaker 2:So, like the Gen Hat makers of the world fell off the planet. Who's the other? I?
Speaker 1:had a. As far as famous people go, I feel like she's the main one. I just had a couple of friends. I mean I had tons of respect.
Speaker 2:They were gifted writers and they were funny and they were I remember you talking about that and how you really enjoyed a blog and I kind of would laugh with you or whatever, and then we'd move on, but it seemed like it impacted you in a positive way. Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Cause those were dark years, Like early years of motherhood are dark, and for me they were. I'm not like a little kid mom. I don't thrive with high control.
Speaker 2:Are you? Where are you, haley, as a high control mom, low control mom, whatever happens? Where are you at as far? You have three boys, three boys.
Speaker 3:Yep 14, 10 and eight 14, 10 and eight. Yes, Um, and I don't know, do you mean kind of like? Am I like a helicopter type of mom? Is that what you're? Yeah?
Speaker 2:Well, like high control, I always kind of think there's um. High control in the early ages is awesome, right, high control, high nurturing. What happens when you don't transition from high control, high nurturing, to the more of a coaching and more you know? More I don't want to say distant, but less control more coaching right. Then your kid becomes like wounded, as a like over devoured by the mom kind of thing so where would, and I know.
Speaker 1:I guess Chris and I use the word high control to discuss, so we are both not in this category Low control. We like immensely struggled in those years where it was like put your child like, like the moms are like sit down, sit down and put on your bib. I'm like we could just like we were not capable of caring about that, and so that was like so hard for us, because then we suffered the consequences of a kid that couldn't sit down and put their bib on. And so anyway, it was hard Right.
Speaker 3:Well, it's funny because, as you were asking that question, I'm sitting here thinking like I don't know, am I high control or am I not what I was actually thinking before? You even said that about your kid not having shoes on. I was thinking like I don't know that I could answer that because I think in some categories I find myself being high control and then in other categories not.
Speaker 3:And so one not thing that I was thinking is like my kids are constantly running around barefoot all the time and I think other people think it's weird. I don't let them go into like a gas station or something barefoot, but maybe you do. That's fine If you do.
Speaker 2:No, we don't own barefoot. I'm pretty good. How do you go into a gas station without shoes? I'm sure it's happened. Yeah, I'm sure it's happened.
Speaker 3:But I mean, I don't know, I guess I'm both, it just depends on the topic and I'm always intrigued by just how, even within my close friend group, I'll have some friends that are very, very strict and controlling in areas that I'm like. I don't even know why you would care about that at all. I don't care about that. But then, there'll be like a different set of things where I care a lot and they're looser. I just think it kind of depends on what we're talking about.
Speaker 2:I know this, now I'm going into a different realm, but this is something I think is important Friend group, because usually moms that have different parenting styles can't be friends. Yeah, is that true.
Speaker 1:I feel like early on it's a different. When they're older it's different because your lifestyle isn't decided so much by your parenting style, right, but in those early years I think that can be kind of true. What?
Speaker 3:do you think yeah, about being friends with moms who parent way different? Yeah.
Speaker 2:I guess I'll start with early age and then probably later on. It doesn't matter as much.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean that's true because later on, like I'm sure as you could, maybe you're still in this life phase, you probably are, but when your kids are little, I remember so when my kids were little, I was a stay at home mom and pretty much all my friends at that time were stay at home moms too. We all had little kids. We were all like having babies all the time at the same time, and so I feel like all of our day to day life back then was like we were together all the time yes, Playdates, and like let's meet at this park on Tuesday and on Thursday let's all go to music hour together.
Speaker 2:That is exactly how it was. Yes, that's for sure. I mean, I'm not going to go to the park to the cat and fly sure part. What's the one on the with all the pecans on it? Anyway, on Anderson mill, anyway, I felt like you were there, was like park central, was like your life revolves around park. If I wanted to find you during the day. I go to a park with like four moms.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, yeah, for sure. And I'm entering out of that stage and for the first time, I'm now able to engage relationally with parents who are like a little different just because we don't have our kids with us, necessarily. Yeah, and that was like so with boys, I'm sure you could speak to this. So I always was like they're on top of each other all the time. Yes, it's like they're just in a dog pile.
Speaker 3:Yes, nonstop.
Speaker 2:Mine still, and this spread is 14108. 14108. So, and they're still in a dog pile.
Speaker 3:Oh my gosh. Yeah, and I would say like half the time in like a fun way like a fun dog pile and then, for sure, at least half the time or more where they're angry and throwing punches and yeah.
Speaker 1:And so that was the case. I mean, that's been true for always with us and we. But we, so quickly we like intervened with, like certain boundaries, like you can't choke someone out.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Right, can't punch in the face, but like also our little, it's so funny.
Speaker 2:Punch in the shoulder was okay.
Speaker 1:Second born. What was like really tiny. They were all small, but he was, really he was. He was like a five pound infant, and so he would get run over a lot whenever we would. So we taught him like you need to just like punch these kids Right, just smack in the face, get him in the nose.
Speaker 1:He was like he's the only source of like. He'll just punch you right in the face Just to go to. He's kind of sort of irritated and so it's a problem, but it's. But what we, what was happening in those years is we were to like they did have a lot of physical engagement, and so then if I hung out with a mom who had boys and they operated on, like we were not physical or only verbal.
Speaker 1:Well, that was a tough deal, because then sometimes it would be like, well, shoot your kid just like said something hateful, and mine just like kicked them and I'm like that's kind of what happens when you say something hateful. Yes, I was ready to move on Like this is them kind of working it out, but it was like they were wanting me to punish my child for kicking and that was like that's where I think we have a low control of like usually when everyone comes and tattles, the strategy now is I just punish everybody.
Speaker 2:If you come and tattle to me, then everyone goes for a lap around. We have like a little 0.3 mile lap that they have to run or walk, or hold hands together which is the latest one? Yeah, you have to hold hands the entire time and you can't let go. That's fun. But that's sort of the punishment strategy and everybody gets punished and I'm not worried about it and I send you off. And I'm not worried about getting into your feelings right now because I understand everybody was guilty at some point Right.
Speaker 1:Everyone contributed to the problem in some way but there is a bit of like just hit them Sure or just deal with it.
Speaker 2:In other words like so, for example, I'm not that we need to be up. We have 10 puppies right now.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:And the strategy with them is you don't need to break them up and they're. They've kind of work it out.
Speaker 1:Right, they do.
Speaker 2:And with I don't say boys or dogs, but they kind of just worked out a lot of their stuff. And I think every now and then we have to train the older ones, especially, like if you create hatred against you by the words you're saying and it causes a visceral response, you're not stewarding the heart of your brother well and you need to understand that you're more brain adept, because early on I think this is true with girls they are all about words and they create boundaries with words, whereas with boys words mean they can't, they're just they're talking grunts and and all over each other, and all over each other.
Speaker 3:So the boundaries are physical, Right At least, that's what I've seen.
Speaker 1:Yeah, would you agree? I mean, that's how we parent it, but not all people are doing it.
Speaker 2:You're right. You're right. You're probably. Maybe that's just us and our parenting style.
Speaker 1:We did parent with physical more than verbal, yeah, so so I now I've had to go backwards and be like hey, first try saying something.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right. We had to backtrack a little bit on that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm trying to teach my kids that even still, because they're go to, I mean, and they, like I said, they get in fights constantly and they'll come to me, you know, to tattle, and it's like I'll have, you know, one on one side of one on the other, and they're each telling me, well, he did this, and then he said this.
Speaker 2:Right and.
Speaker 3:I'm like, why don't y'all talk to each other?
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:Why do I have to be the like? Did you tell him that? Hey, that hurt my feelings when you did that, or hey, that got on my nerves? Like did you even try to say that to him or did you just instantly?
Speaker 2:come.
Speaker 3:And it's always that they instantly come to me. But I'm trying to get them to stop it.
Speaker 2:Now, now I'm about to get into, like you know, social commentary culture. Like I feel like, and this I don't know if this is true, that you've seen this because kids have become more insulated, Like there has never been a time that I haven't known where Austin is.
Speaker 2:And it's not that I actually not that I don't want to know, but like there was never points like hey, I'm going to go out and play and he was somewhere, I wasn't really sure and I was just trusting he would come home Right and he would have to have had to work it out at some degree with other kids, even his brothers, at some point, for them to go on a journey somewhere and then come back alive. I remember doing that.
Speaker 2:I remember having to have conflict overcoming, building resiliency just through life. But in a world where child abduction is like a thing and you're, you know, we see, and rightfully so like there's a real sense of there are child predators out there and so we've got to be a little bit more careful with that, what is, what is the right response and how do you build up the reason? And I'm about to give you here's your counselor answer how do you build up resiliency with children in those stages and this? If you can give me a textbook answer or one from your own kids, that'd be great. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:I mean I would well I'll. I'll try to answer your question in just a second, but you are right. I think I was talking about this the other night at small group, because I've got a few friends in there who have considered driving already, like my oldest is 14, so we're not dealing with driving yet, but they've got some that just started driving and they were saying how, like with the life 360 app, I guess you can.
Speaker 3:once you have kids that are driving, you can obviously track their location, but you can also track exactly like how fast they're going, I think even and maybe I'm wrong, but I think even like how hard they break, and like all these different things. And so one of the girls in the group was saying, like gosh, like this is becoming dangerous for me, or like, I guess, unhealthy for me, because she's like I just sit here and look at life 360 constantly to see how fast is he going?
Speaker 3:You can like tell if they're texting while they're driving and you can even shut off their texting so that they can't do that, and in some ways that's, I guess, good.
Speaker 3:Like our parent, my parents didn't have that ability to track how fast I was going and to make sure I wasn't. I don't think I had a phone to text with when I first started driving, so I guess in some ways it's good, but in others. So what we were talking about at small group is we were like sometimes maybe it's just better to not know.
Speaker 3:Like are we driving ourselves crazy, tracking every single thing they're doing, and then, if they are in fact speeding, what are we going to do? Like jump up from small group and go call them and, you know, slow down or follow them where they're at. It can it can kind of drive you crazy, but you're right. I mean there are things like kidnapping and stuff that I think is different than it was a long time ago, and so I think there are some areas where maybe it's healthy to kind of have that tighter control, and then other areas where maybe we don't need it. And I think, just learning to discern is this a necessary control or not? Or even to discern like, why do I feel like I need to control this? Is it really for their benefit, or do I have some kind of a control issue and that's why I have to control?
Speaker 1:this thing, yeah, or like, do I have a perceived sense of security in knowing as like I think I feel like that year that always irritates me People that feel like knowing makes it safer.
Speaker 2:Right, Well, I would think where you're still in and there and again, I think that I don't want to be like you know, I'm not quite free range parenting, but but I do think that when you instill trust in a kid by I trust you, and they're able to make mistakes with without a you know they take a risk, they make it then there's confidence that's built, even if it was dumb. Right, does that make sense? Yeah, oh, I can actually do life. Because why are kids not moving out? Right, because isn't this like I don't want to call it like an epidemic, but children are living at home till they're 30 because they've been parented to live at home until they're 30.
Speaker 3:And like not getting driver's license Driver's license. I thought that was crazy.
Speaker 2:I thought maybe I was like oh, maybe our neighbor's just the one person? No, but that is because we have a neighbor that's 16, or now 18, and she just got a driver's license. But, that's not not normal, that is normal for kids to wait because I don't know.
Speaker 3:I think all sorts of reasons. I mean. I think more and more I've heard that kids don't care to have their driver's license, like they're happy for their parents to drive them around or to bum a ride with a friend. So I think that's maybe. I would bet that's most of it. I think there are some parents maybe that don't wanna, don't feel like their kids ready to drive yet. I don't know, but I was gonna backtrack for a second and I don't know if this is.
Speaker 1:I kind of forget what your original question was yeah, listen we're free for long, but something that you said or asked triggered this thought for me.
Speaker 3:So my oldest son is 14. And he accepted Christ when he was like seven.
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 3:I never saw really like a whole lot of. I mean again, he's seven. So, there is that, but I never saw like a ton of life change happen. Like he was a Christian. I know that he actually understood what it meant to ask Jesus into your heart, like I know he did.
Speaker 2:But Was it a backyard Bible club experience?
Speaker 3:No, it was just at home. Oh nice, yeah, just at home. So then he gets to middle school and not that he cause he wasn't. He was not a bad kid, he wasn't getting into any kind of crazy trouble Like drugs and drinking or anything crazy like that. But I definitely, as he went from like six to seventh and then the end of seventh he was starting to kind of like the people he was hanging around with. I just could see some changes in him and I definitely didn't see anything like Jesus in him. Really, he was just kind of going the same way that all of his non-Christian friends were going and like listening to the same kind of music. For a while we had this rule where you know, he was super into rap music, so we would let him listen to rap music, but it had to be like a quote, unquote, clean and edited version. That was maybe I would actually say that's maybe the biggest parenting mistake I think I've made thus far, like even the clean and edited. This is like a total side note.
Speaker 2:But clean and edited. I'm like taking notes.
Speaker 3:Clean and edited rap music is still really dirty, if you're actually the message is still there.
Speaker 2:Maybe the like F word is beeped out or whatever you need to tell Adrienne what she's listening to, then Well, well, actually honestly same same.
Speaker 1:So I could record that event over.
Speaker 3:Okay, I'm listening to pop Taylor Swift. Yeah, pop.
Speaker 1:I am not listening to guide honoring music. Yeah, I will confess that.
Speaker 3:Same, honestly the same.
Speaker 2:That's what we call that mommy's music.
Speaker 3:It's very true and like complete solidarity with you on that. But he was listening to some stuff and I was letting it because I'm like, well, I'm making sure it's edited. And anyway, he went last year. He had like a very I keep calling it a life changing summer. He went to boot camp and did like Backyard Bible Club and then he also went to like a different church camp with Austin Ridge Church and it was the whole summer was transformative for him. I mean for sure, for sure. His walk with Jesus like took root and became real over the summer. And so he came back at the end of the summer and he on his own decided like I'm not listening to any of that anymore, like it's not good I can, it's doing things to my brain and almost any feel bad about myself, cause I'm like gosh.
Speaker 3:He shouldn't have, like I should have told him that instead of him arriving at that decision for himself, but I was proud that he did so. It comes back from the summer and he's decided like no more. In fact he decided he will only listen to Christian music, which I didn't give him that rule, but he decided Christian music only.
Speaker 2:Do you think that might be actually a good thing? I don't want to say like I'm not gonna go like, hey, encourage your kids listen to hardcore rap, but do you think it was good that you, because there wasn't a rule from you, it became a peer pressure, whatever thing? Yes, I definitely think so. Or God, holy Spirit thing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think so. Now I will say with my younger two, like now that we're removed from that kind of rap music world.
Speaker 3:I'm like, okay, I will not. My younger two will not be permitted to listen to that. Whether they decide that or not, I'm deciding that on their behalf. But yes, with my oldest, like the way it happened, I do think maybe it was better that he arrived at that decision for himself. But so he decided that. He decided that he's getting super plugged into youth group and he's not gonna miss a week of youth group. He kind of made all these really great decisions and at first I found myself being kind of like oh, this is like too good to be true, like it's almost like it's just like a church camp high. After a few weeks he's gonna be like, eh, whatever, whatever Church march. But he has maintained like all of those decisions from June through currently. But I'm getting to my point Last week, for the first time in however many months that is, eight months he didn't wanna go to youth group a few weeks ago and also he's got a bark phone and so I'm able to track like everything he's listening to everything he's texting like everything.
Speaker 3:Well, for the first time in like eight or nine months, a rap song popped up which I hadn't seen, that that hadn't even been an issue for like nine months now, and I instantly felt like almost like fear. This is not a huge deal to skip youth group one week out of nine months this isn't cause for alarm, necessarily. And one rap music, one rap song. But I felt like, oh my gosh, what does this mean? Does this mean he's like backtracking from his decision? Does this mean he's like falling off? Is he hitting with a bad crowd? And so I decided, okay, the second he gets home from school, like I'm gonna confront him about why did you wanna skip youth group and you listen to a rap song all in the same week? Like what does this mean? And so I'm like washing dishes and like waiting for him to get home and I'm praying as I'm doing it and I'm asking God like, okay, I don't wanna be like psycho mom.
Speaker 3:That was crazy on him over this small offense. But I felt really unsettled and so I felt God. So I asked God. I said, in your infinite wisdom, is it okay to approach him about this? How should my approach be? And I felt very like, almost like God, like audibly saying approach him only if it is not out of a place of fear.
Speaker 3:Like if you feel like you're coming to him about this as a hey, I love you and you're, you know, a brother in Christ and like, let's talk about what was prompted this decision to listen to this music, that's one thing. But if it's like, oh my gosh, I'm so fearful about what this means, your fear is going to be off-putting to him.
Speaker 3:And so I decided, okay, well, in this moment it's coming from a place of fear and insecurity. So, okay, god, I will obey and I won't go this. I'll wait for your Holy Spirit to convict him versus me. And then he walked in the door from school and I instantly was like, hey, why are you listening to?
Speaker 3:my music again, so I completely disobeyed and, like I feared, it was off-putting to him and he was like this is very overblown, but my whole point saying that is, I do think, with your original question 20 minutes ago now. I think that this kind of issue of control versus not control, I don't know that there's like a set formula for it.
Speaker 3:I think it is gotta be God-driven kind of the way that you're controlling and what you're controlling. I think it's different from kid to kid and I think, like where it's coming from inside of you, like what the reason for it is.
Speaker 2:I think all of those things matter. I like what you said about fear and, adrienne, I wanted you to touch on that because I think you and I have had a conversation about parenting from fear or like, or talk.
Speaker 1:We talked about that last podcast. Was that last? It was on podcast.
Speaker 2:Well, should we talk about it again, because I want to bring Haley into that conversation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I also want to hear some of Haley's background, because we don't know that yet but we can come back to that.
Speaker 1:I guess I do feel like when we talked about a couple of weeks ago, is all of our kids are probably gonna walk away with like issues from our parenting, like there's gonna be things I mean, we're broken people, we have ways of coping, ways of leading that are from a place of brokenness, so that's gonna affect them negatively.
Speaker 1:They're gonna have to work that out. But what I think when I look back at times when I feel like a message got really screwed up, is when there was like fear driving the instruction or fear driving the correction. And when I think about my own parenting, like exactly what you described I feel like is when to pay attention. Because to me, the difference between coming to your son cause you love them and you don't want this rap music to like bring them down in a way that is like like you're coming fully with like a heart of love for them and a love for God and a wisdom Like that is a very different motive than coming to them from like I'm so scared because basically I don't trust God is sovereign over this. I don't trust that like I have lack of faith in a lot of things, so I'm gonna come and attack you for something that makes me scared. I think the same action motivated from a place of fear versus a place of like love.
Speaker 1:I think that to me is. I mean, I obviously have a long way to go in parenting, but that to me seems to be a consistent red flag to like, pay attention to and like look at. When you see a child who launches at 18 and just rebels, my guess is they were parents with a whole lot of like fear. And I, when I even come to like I think it's true when they're two years old, like when you let your kids go barefoot, you're there's a bit of like. Well, I might step on something.
Speaker 1:Austin had 11 stitches in the arch of his foot from running around barefoot and running and I'm like, and that's something that like, I'm not afraid of that happening again. If it happens again, we're gonna deal with it again. But also I would like to hope that my son's learned something about wearing some shoes. And I'm like, but and I need to not let him go into a gas station, for the love of God we are going to have, we're gonna obey laws. That happened when he was with dad not mom, apparently.
Speaker 1:But I do feel like there's a point at which, like, even when it comes down to like, our safety of our kids, it's like like I have a real hard time. I am not an anxious person, but when it comes to the sidewalk and scooters, I am like I can't do it. I can't go on a walk with my kids where they're on scooters and we're on a sidewalk on a busy road Like I'm just way too nervous. I'm the same way.
Speaker 3:Yes, that's. I guess that is one thing where I am like helicopter-ish, so I just like I just don't do it.
Speaker 1:I'm like we're just not going on a walk. Well, we go to a trail because I can't. I get so panicky Even during trick or treating. I'm like they're. My four year old will be right over tonight because he's just darts out It'll be the worst Halloween ever.
Speaker 1:And so. But I'm like anything else, I'm like oh, they can climb that or do that or run that, and so I think there's certain things where I'm like, okay, yeah, it's wild, and at the playground they're, like you know, doing backflips off the top and you're like that's fine.
Speaker 3:That's funny, I'm the exact same way. The traffic in cars is a huge fear for me.
Speaker 2:Is that because it's uncontrollable? I think it is. I feel like I. It's like a false sense of control at the playground because that's four kids.
Speaker 1:No but it's not. Here's why I don't think it's a false sense. If you're a child, I really believe if they can climb up that high, they'll probably have the skills to climb down.
Speaker 2:Right fair enough, and if you backflip?
Speaker 1:off something and break your arm. You probably need to learn that, and so I'm kind of like I'm okay with that. But a car, like trusting that people are paying attention and seeing I don't know to me there's a whole Another dynamic level, dynamic, and so what I do is because I am unable to engage that without parenting, from a place of total fear and anxiety, that I'm like I just can't. I just can't really do that.
Speaker 2:I think one of the places that we've grown is like, for example, at the soccer fields. The playground is like kind of disconnected from the soccer fields but there's no traffic in between, right, and so, like, hey, go play on the playground, go figure it out. It's kind of our.
Speaker 1:What do you care a lot about. Like I'm like you've got, my kids are all. They're just not very extroverted, they're not super confident in leaving me. So for me it's almost a discipline issue. Like if you're going to sit here and whine at me, that's a problem. Like we're going to get disciplined for that. So I'm wanting you to go separate and go work out your problems on the playground and, like you know, get with other kids and have conflict. So I think that there is a point where, like, you need to parenting from a place of like, boundaries and wisdom, without being motivated by fear, I think is such a big deal and I think it's subtle and I think even when it comes to, like, letting your daughter go to like some middle school dance, I'm like I think you can choose to not let them go or let them go, and either decision, I think, can be the wrong one if it's from a place motivated by fear.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I really do think that that is like so I think I think one of the things that I'm hearing and I felt like is parents taking their authority authoritarian, not authoritarian. The role of authority in the home is important, whatever the authority is. When you're in charge you know it when when the army used to say, when in charge, be in charge. And so, when you're in charge and your authority, be confident in the decisions that you're making and don't vacillate, because that creates insecurity within your child and that makes them feel like things are unsafe and whereas if you confidently tell them yes or confidently tell them no, they will learn to deal with it Right and that builds resiliency and trust for authority and all the things that we probably need to instill in them, but I think what the culture tells us hey, whatever your child's feeling, you need to empower that.
Speaker 3:Right, yeah, yeah, and I did. I don't know if you were going to talk about the podcast that you had listened to the USSMI, and I listened to that a couple days ago.
Speaker 2:It was a podcast by Jordan Peterson on basically this issue of parents like giving up authority right Say like oh, counselors are the authority or somebody else other than me is the best person to raise my child.
Speaker 3:Right, yeah, Now my head is full of so many different thoughts because I was going to respond to something you said a minute ago, but I also want to talk about that really quick. I guess some stuff that you were saying. I agree with everything that you said and I think it's also like back to my story with my oldest, with like the rap song and me confronting him. I think sometimes you have to like it's like a thin line or a yeah, I guess that's thin line because you are the parent and therefore you are like God put you as their parent for a reason to teach them and instruct them and have some rules and boundaries, and so I know you can't be lax on that Right.
Speaker 3:At the same time, like with the situation with my oldest, I was thinking, okay, I'm not really giving any room at all for the Holy Spirit to convince him Like maybe if I who knows if I would have waited a day or two, if he would have been like mom, you know, I ended up listening to a rap song and I, you know, I'm feeling like I shouldn't have done that or like maybe the Holy Spirit could have convicted him versus me being like why did you do that? And there's many other times where that comes up, where it's like you know, you've got to like kind of let them fall or risk it a little bit, and because if their walk with Jesus is real, then he's going to convict them.
Speaker 2:If you want that to happen. How do you repair it? Like, oh, you've screwed that up. You want to make it right. How does a parent do you not repair? Like oh, I jumped on you when I I just told him that I did that.
Speaker 3:I mean, I don't know if that was the, I don't know if there would have been a better way to repair it, but I like, after like probably an hour, I was like dude, I overreacted, I'm sorry. Like you're right, it's not a huge deal that you missed youth group one week out of nine months and you know, like I would, we're not going to go back to listening to the music that you used to listen to, but at the same time, one song in nine months. Like I think my reaction was overboard and I'm sorry.
Speaker 2:And how did he respond?
Speaker 3:He's great. He's very much like a mama's boy kind of kid and so he was very sweet about it. But I don't know if you would have been years ago in Grace Path when Cindy Hawks you still lead it. She had I forget how she worded it but something that she would talk about, where it's not so much your I'm going to get it wrong how she said it, but it's not so much like how you react to something, but it's like how quickly do you make it right or recover from it.
Speaker 3:Basically your turnaround time. That's what it was. What is your turnaround time?
Speaker 2:Adrienne did a whole women's treat on that.
Speaker 1:I took a whole thing off of her on that and it your turnaround time is everything, because we're going to screw it up Like we're going to mess it up, and so the turnaround how quickly you turn around?
Speaker 3:I think is what matters. But I have laughed over the years because I'm like. I bet my kids think I am like bipolar or something because my turnaround time is actually really great, Like I think I have a great, but it's so quick that I think sometimes they're like whoa, what just happened.
Speaker 2:You were just so.
Speaker 3:I am really good about going back and saying like, gosh, I'm sorry, like that was not the right, huge, so I'm good at that, I would say, but and to me that shows relational repair.
Speaker 1:To me that's what our kids need to see in their marriage someday, and their dating relationships, Like this whole, like even if you waited two days when you kind of were feeling it. 30 minutes later.
Speaker 1:I'm like don't wait two days. There's like for them to learn that like we actually can. Honestly, I really do think that some of that, that apology, can be as a decision and you can just choose to make a decision really quickly, right yeah, and it's good for them to see that it doesn't have to be this long drawn out thing. So I'm oh, did you have more to respond back on what Chris was saying? I just want to, I want to hear a little bit.
Speaker 2:We're going to move to that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, were you ready to move? Yep, do you want to ask?
Speaker 3:No, no, I can, I can like, I would like to be that pretty good at submission, you're, you're no you are so submissive. So, sweet.
Speaker 2:Yes, sweet and submissive, that's right. And meek oh very meek Learns and quiet submission. That's pretty much who Adrian like.
Speaker 1:Anyway, I'm curious, like did you grow up here? I don't know this kind of background on you, so where you grew up, where you went to high school, college, and then, like when y'all got your whole story of marriage and kids, I'm just like I would love to hear that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Okay, so I lit well. Born in Houston, moved to Florida when I was like two years old and lived there until I was 10.
Speaker 3:And then my family moved to Austin and then pretty much had been in Austin ever since, except I went to A&M. So I went to A&M for I was in college station for four years, got married right out of college and my husband got a job in Dallas. So we lived in Dallas for a year but then back in Austin, cedar Park area, ever since. Where'd you go to high school, leander? Okay, yeah, so I mean, yeah, I've been around in the same area for a very long time. So, leander, High School.
Speaker 1:What did y'all go to?
Speaker 3:church when you were in high school? Yeah, so my family went to Shoreline. Oh, shoreline Christian Center.
Speaker 1:It's right around here.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and then my well, my now ex-husband but, his family grew up at Hill Country. Oh, okay, so like he'd gone there, like his family, I think, was going to it when it met, like at the Dairy Queen or like the Dairy Queen parking lot. I mean across the street from where, like in that shopping center.
Speaker 2:Now a rise. Ministries, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so they were there from the very beginning. And so after he and I got married we went there because that's just what you know he was kind of used to, and so we did that. And then probably I don't remember maybe a year or two into our marriage, we were like it might be kind of refreshing to go somewhere different than where your family has gone for your whole life, and so we actually helped start the Hill Country UT church plants, yeah.
Speaker 2:Wow With Denny Henry Sand and that was a great experience.
Speaker 3:But after like a year or so of that we weren't having kids yet, but we knew we were going to start thinking about having kids and that church plant kind of just felt like a college ministry. Yeah, it was Not so much a family type of thing, and so we left there and then we were part of the Round Rock church plant. Who was the master of that one Round Rock? Keith Ferguson, oh, keith.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so City View became City. View Right Whenever the whole remember when everyone was Hill Country and I know.
Speaker 3:For a while it was like Hill Country Round Rock, hill Country Flavorville, but now all the churches have their own names.
Speaker 1:But yeah, oh, I didn't realize that Keith was. I knew I didn't, so that's when they were at the YMCA Right.
Speaker 3:Yes, okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yes, okay, I knew Keith was at the YMCA. I didn't know that was called Hill Country Round Rock. That's cool. Yes.
Speaker 3:That shows, I guess, again how old I am. No, whatever.
Speaker 2:That's O7. Like she's OG Old school, hill Country stuff.
Speaker 3:But then we eventually made our way back to Hill Country, lake Line or whatever, whatever we're calling that.
Speaker 2:Austin now.
Speaker 3:Austin. Okay, yeah, I call it Lake Line, lake Line, whatever it is.
Speaker 2:Northwest.
Speaker 3:Yes, and so Trying to think of what else. So yeah, after graduating from A&M, before we had kids, I worked in a sales role for a couple of years. Then I got a job that I actually really loved, working in the admissions department at Concordia.
Speaker 1:Oh fun.
Speaker 3:I loved that job. I hadn't really loved the sales stuff, I just did it. But at Concordia job I really loved that. And then we'd been trying and trying to get pregnant.
Speaker 3:Get this job at Concordia, like without success. Then I get this job at Concordia that I'm like, ok, I love this, maybe it's good that we're not having kids yet, because I kind of want to stay here and keep doing this. And then I got pregnant very quickly once I started that job and had intended to continue working even once we had our baby. But once he came I just couldn't leave him which I think was a pretty common thing, I think, that happens with moms.
Speaker 3:So then I stayed home for the next 12 years which is we had him. And then we had two more, and so I stayed home for the next whatever 10 or 12 years. Right after graduating from A&M, I had considered going to grad school to be a counselor, because that's what I've actually always wanted to do.
Speaker 3:I don't know why I didn't. It was one of those things. I think it was like well, I'm done with school, so I really want to jump right back into school. I kind of didn't. Me and my husband wanted to do some traveling. We didn't have kids yet, so it was a good time to do that. So I just didn't do it and then ended up staying home with kids for the next decade. But then, gosh, six years ago now got a divorce not my desire, but that's what happened and so it was kind of time to figure out OK, what is life going to look like now? I'm not sure that staying at home.
Speaker 3:Mom gig is going to keep working in this new chapter of life, and so when trying to figure out what life was going to look like, it was easy to like. Counseling again was something I'd always wanted to do, so that was a pretty easy decision. I didn't want to just get a job that I was going to like, just a job that. I wasn't going to like, and so, yeah, I went back to school at Liberty University and I'm almost done finally getting my master's in clinical mental health counseling.
Speaker 2:And the question we asked remember I asked you this earlier is it called an LPC intern or LPC associate? Is the official term associate?
Speaker 3:It's associate. I think those terms are used interchangeably.
Speaker 2:So different people, people got really offended when I said intern, and so I learned not to say that anymore.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I would not get offended, because when we met that one time I'm like I don't actually know either. So I don't care if you call me an intern, but I think they're kind of used interchangeably.
Speaker 2:So I love the fact that you've got a teenager, and so, therefore, counseling teenagers is that something that you are into? Want to do, love doing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's funny Because I only just started. I'd only reached the internship portion of my schooling in January and this is what March, so it's only been a couple of months, but I already have quite a few regular clients I'm seeing, and most of them are teenagers.
Speaker 3:That has been kind of the main. I've got three actual adults non-teenagers that are regular clients and then I've got quite a few teenagers, which is not something I necessarily ever said that oh, I specialize in teenagers, it just has kind of happened that way. But I'm really liking that. Actually I like that category of client.
Speaker 1:It's a great. I taught high school for a season and I think it's such a. I also think if you can capture a teenager at like 17, I think you changed that trajectory like pretty firm so that's really really cool. I love that. Ok, so this is where I'm curious. So I just blanked on what I was going to ask you.
Speaker 3:You're so curious but you can't remember.
Speaker 1:You said you majored in business. Is that what you?
Speaker 3:said Communications.
Speaker 1:Communications at A&M. What can I ask when you graduated A&M?
Speaker 3:Yeah, o3. Well, I was class of O3. I graduated in O4, actually I had and have scoliosis, like a crooked back and my let's see. I guess it would have been my sophomore year of college. I had surgery which took place over Christmas break, and so the recovery time should have been like Christmas break should have been sufficient to have the surgery and recovery and then go back when the spring semester started.
Speaker 3:But I got a staff infection from the surgery and it was actually really, really awful, and so I had to sit out a whole semester because I had to. It was actually a huge ordeal, but because of that I ended up being O4 instead of O3.
Speaker 1:Ok, oh, my word. Yeah, oh, I remember. Ok, I was curious about that. Here's my other thing. So I remember seeing some of this stuff about your sister. I'm not sure how much of that story that you did, chair.
Speaker 3:She's very comfortable with me talking about that so I can share.
Speaker 1:I would love to hear Because I was following I think I was following you on Facebook through maybe her initial like a successful recovery, maybe the first successful kind of recovery. I almost feel like you wrote a blog about it that I read, and at the time our church has always kind of reached a demographic of people where we always do have at least a couple in the process of recovering addicts, and so we've become more, I've become more familiar and I enjoy these people a lot. They're some of my favorite individuals at the church.
Speaker 2:Why is that?
Speaker 1:They're just so real. They're real, they're all the things Like there's an authenticity and I think there's also something really cool that I find in someone that's reached a rock bottom. It's like they see all of life through a perspective that I think is so life-giving.
Speaker 3:It's so true, and I feel like they're typically a lot more maybe it's what you're saying, but more compassionate. Some of the most, like my sister, is actually very, very compassionate, and other people that I know that have kind of gone through some similar stuff as her. It definitely breeds Like when you've been at rock bottom and been, I mean, in a lot of ways my sister was a hated person. Being an addict makes you an awful person and it's a disease, but she was an awful person for a lot of years and therefore was looked at as an awful person and so I think it's given her compassion. Now for other quote unquote awful people.
Speaker 2:And maybe he has been forgiven. Much loves much.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, that's a more eloquent way of saying what we're trying to say yeah, and I also think they have a freedom, like they have a freedom in who they are. That is so attractive to me. It's like who they are today. They're just free to be whatever that is.
Speaker 2:Were you thinking about something specific with her sister, like her journey?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I was curious if you would share with us a little bit, because I feel like that. My guess is you would have a lot of insight in counseling somebody through a similar struggle.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh yeah. And we do have a lot of people that would probably.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think I would have insight for sure into counseling an addict themselves. But I also think I have a lot of insight on, you know, a lot of people don't realize that when there's an addict like, the family is very much affected too. Maybe not to the same extent or in the same way as the addict themselves, but my parents could have and should have benefited greatly from counseling. They can't really seek that out and they should have.
Speaker 2:I mean it would have been very helpful For being a family member of an addict Exactly I mean there's so much hurt involved with being a family member of an addict.
Speaker 3:There is enabling behaviors that you can fall into, I mean there's all kinds of things. But yeah, so my sister she is six years younger than me, ironically she had scoliosis too, and so she had back surgery. Also, what makes it ironic is that mine is called congenital scoliosis, meaning I was born with it. Hers is idiopathic, meaning she just developed it, and so it's strange that we both have it, but not the same. Yeah, but anyway, she had back surgery also, I was already in college when she had hers and she got addicted to her prescription pain medicine after her surgery, and so that is what initiated her addiction, and that was when she was about 16.
Speaker 3:I don't think that addiction with teenagers and pain medicine was as prevalent back then as it is now, because I think now parents most parents are pretty hyper sensitive to that kind of a thing. My mom and it's not her fall Again, I don't think it was as much of a thing back then, but my mom was not hyper aware of that, and so my mom noticed that my sisters seemed to need the pain medication longer than what I had needed, but it didn't arouse her suspicion, necessarily, and so my sister stayed on pain medicine longer than she should have, developed an addiction Throughout high school, I think it was just not just, but it was just the pain pills. But eventually, as with any addiction, that no longer does the trick, and so then she had to go after something more, and so she eventually became a very, very, very hardcore heroin addict, like an IV. She literally blew out every vein pretty much in her body.
Speaker 2:Is she alive still? She is. I mean, that's a miracle in and of itself, very, very long journey.
Speaker 3:I mean, she was homeless in Colorado for some number of years. She was in jail a lot. Honestly, my family would feel relieved when she was in jail because we were like, OK, she's safe.
Speaker 3:She's not doing drugs, she's fed, she's not sleeping in the cold. So it was actually like a good thing for a while. When she was in jail she would kind of go through bouts of sobriety, I think for a long time. Maybe the longest that she ever maintained was like two or three months, and then she would like fall back into it. And then she ended up she met a guy in rehab and that was another thing. She was in and out of rehab all the time. I mean, she's been in so many rehabs I think she actually ran out of rehabs to go to because she had been in so many. She met a guy in one of the rehabs, ended up getting married. She got pregnant with her son and she did manage to stay sober for the majority of her pregnancy. She had him and like I mean, it's kind of a long story but CPS got involved.
Speaker 3:My parents ended up raising him for the first year that he was alive, because if they didn't, cps would have taken him. And so then she got serious and she went to a live in I think. I think it was like a year long rehab program here in Austin, and so she was there for like eight months without her son. My parents had her son and then for the last three or four months that she was there she got to bring her son to go live with her and that was it. She has been sober ever since.
Speaker 2:So her son is almost six.
Speaker 3:She's maintained sobriety now for five years essentially, which is for sure the longest stretch by far, and she's actually. She did not finish her undergrad, so she's actually in school right now getting her undergrad in. I forget the exact name for it, but basically addictions counseling.
Speaker 2:Oh cool, yeah, yeah, that's powerful. I mean, that's clearly where, like, counseling is needed.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:And a blessing, and one of the things I sent you was the interview with Jordan Pearson and. Abigail Schreyer, Like there's times when parents send their kids to counseling because they don't know, I think they've abdicated their role as a parent. Yeah, Talk to me Maybe how you like in this. I know you're just starting off, so I don't expect you have all the answers.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:But maybe this is the part where maybe you've seen it just socially. And then just how have we seen our culture sort of shift towards like outsourcing authority to other people for our own children, and then how I think there's almost, almost a harm when the Not you, of course, but a lot of counselors aren't Christ-centered. I mean, that's not even like you know, you're at Liberty University, where you're learning how to integrate Jesus and the stuff.
Speaker 2:But where a lot of counselors aren't doing that and they're kind of like follow your feelings, follow your heart.
Speaker 3:You're going to self-actualize yeah.
Speaker 2:And it actually creates this negative like so much self-navel gazing that you become almost narcissistic. You almost give your kid an NPD narcissistic personality disorder because there's so much to look at them.
Speaker 3:True, I feel like I need like a whole hour to even. Well, for real, though, because that podcast, well, this is what's going to be. We're going to like we'll end in about five minutes. Five minutes, Okay. And then what we'll do is we'll bring you back.
Speaker 2:Okay, and then that'll be like the cliffhanger that people will come back for.
Speaker 3:Yeah because there's actually a lot to be said about that podcast that you said I mean for sure, for sure, more than the five minutes. But yeah, I actually listened to the podcast and then I called a friend of mine and made her listen to it because I'm like what do you think about this?
Speaker 3:Because I would say 60 to 70% of it I agreed with and was even like convicted by it, because there were some things I'm like gosh, I could be doing better at this. So I for sure the bulk of it I jived with and agreed with. There was a small percentage from like I don't know if I agree with this, because and I think I do I think maybe it's just the way they were wording some things.
Speaker 2:And it wasn't Christian. No, I know it wasn't Christian.
Speaker 3:But like I think about, I almost like they undermined a little bit the importance of like I think about my sister, for example going back to her with her addiction.
Speaker 3:I think that she had. In fact, I know now that she had some very underlying things going on inside of her from a young age. So she struggles greatly with anxiety and she struggles with depression and she's recently been diagnosed with bipolar disorder. She was super insecure, like she was really really tiny for her age and got picked on for that and it just bred insecurity in her and so she had all of these things going on as a little or younger girl. And so I think that when she gets this pain medication and it has kind of you know this calming or euphoric, whatever effect, I think that in a lot of ways she self-medicated.
Speaker 3:Like she had felt so distressed and torn up on the inside for so many years. And then she takes this and it's like, and I feel like if some of those internal emotional things had been addressed, maybe she wouldn't have turned to that as a coping mechanism. And so in some ways I felt like in that podcast they almost were undermining the importance of what are the underlying feelings happening, or what are the underlying things happening inside, like I think there is.
Speaker 3:I think that's important, and so that was the small portion that I kind of was like I don't know if I agree with these people, but the vast majority of what they said I think is true, like I do think people and honestly me sometimes way too heavily on your kids feelings and like treat them like little.
Speaker 2:I don't know victims like lilies or whatever. You're not. You can't do it. I have to protect you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I think that sometimes not to stereotype I think sometimes that's harder for moms than for dads. Moms tend to have a bit more of like a nurturing and soft side, whereas I think it's a little bit easier for a dad to be like you're fine, go do what I told you to do, and there's not going to make excuses for it. And so I agree with so much of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think the thing that I've sort of seen like because they're super conservative, which yeah. So in this, what I've been saying for a long time, the conservative movement without Christ is growing meaning, and for the longest time we've all the conservatives have been Christians. We're like the one we're it and everybody else over there is the bad guys and all of a sudden we are right.
Speaker 2:Everyone's like oh, those Christians are not. I mean, they might believe a crazy thing about Jesus being raised from the dead, but look at how awesome they are Right. And of course, the left has been pushing. They're just so angry. So a lot of non-Christians are jumping over to the conservative bandwagon without Christ. And you might be doing a lot of right things, but with the wrong reason.
Speaker 2:And I think that's the problem Ultimately, when you don't have a Christ center viewpoint which is why I love Ben Shapiro and those guys, but he doesn't know Jesus.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Jordan Peterson, christianesque. Yeah, you know, like I think that's the problem that I'm finding with a lot of conservative people that don't have Christ. We say the same things and it's, and so what you're going to find is like you're probably have a lot of conservatives kind of bash counseling again.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because it's not gonna be the non Christ centered stuff is still wrong. And so all of a sudden, we're gonna be on the lefties over here. They're crazy liberal and we haven't moved. And so, as one who has been the only conservative person as people march over the conservative side as everyone's, that's cool. Now it's cool to be conservative. We're going against the grain. How awesome we are.
Speaker 2:We're gonna find ourselves on the liberal side of things and addressing things like emotions. Everyone's gonna be like you need to be Stoic. Stoic's the way to go. Every super conservative person like they kind of lift up Stoicism as like the ultimate in philosophy and they're like we're gonna be against all those heathness. Blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 1:And I'm just like man your feelings aren't evil.
Speaker 2:They are a great sense of understanding where the darkness of your own heart is. But your solution isn't like stealing yourself against reality, it's embracing Christ, and I think that is as I'm watching the culture sway back and forth and it's happening so fast, or at least it feels like it's happening so fast, because now I'm older and so look at those whippersnappers. But I feel like that's what I'm watching happen is, the conservative movement is going past the far right and I'm not there. I feel like I'm sitting right here.
Speaker 1:I haven't moved. Yeah, I agree, and I really do think that there has to be a middle ground between acknowledging past and healing and feelings, but also not being driven by them, right, I mean because I think what Jordan Pierce would say like the absolute nuttiness of the transgender stuff has created everyone going like.
Speaker 2:I cannot identify with that crazy. I'm jumping on the conservative bandwagon but we don't have Christ over here. It creates a noob problem.
Speaker 3:Right, well, I think two things, and I know we have to wrap up, I guess but two so maybe we can.
Speaker 2:This is your wrap up, and then we're gonna cliffhanger.
Speaker 3:I was gonna say. I think it could be a good cliffhanger, because two thoughts that came to my mind while you were talking, and then, while you were talking, one and again alluding back to, like Cindy Hawks or the Grace Pat. They. She used to always talk so much about the fact versus or truth and feeling like choo-choo train illustration where you know like what's supposed to be, and I'm gonna get all the parts of the train wrong like the ingen-.
Speaker 2:It's a faith, fact, feelings, right. No fact is the resurrection faith and then the feelings the last one, oh right, but she had to look at.
Speaker 1:She did have a train, I remember she had a train.
Speaker 2:They're stealing the your life in Christ thing from crew Maybe. Which is fact faith? Yeah, that's fine.
Speaker 3:And the point was like you know what should be driving the train is truth.
Speaker 2:God's truth.
Speaker 3:And then not that you eliminate your feelings but, your feelings can follow with what is true but how you can get yourself in a really bad situation when what is driving everything is your feelings and then truth is just kind of like you know, and so I think that's a huge thing to kind of Jordan Peterson's podcast is. I think that is what he was saying without saying is that nowadays, kids and parents and everyone is just being like-.
Speaker 2:Feelings leads the way. It's just so. Everything they're feelings of the truth.
Speaker 3:I feel this way and, oh my gosh, they feel this way versus like where's the truth? So I think that's a huge thing. And then, to answer, you were asking kind of like why do I think that nowadays people are kind of just like abdicating their authority and like letting like counselor handle this, or let the teacher. I don't know exactly why, because you're right, I'm not an expert yet, I'm new at all this, but I do think one thing is just like the information overload right.
Speaker 3:So, I feel like when I had like a newborn, for example, and I'm trying to decide like what's my, what's our parenting philosophy? Are we like attachment style parents.
Speaker 3:Or are we like what? Are we vaccinate, like all the things? Well, there are far more than like what our parents and our grandparents had. There are a million resources online on social media, on podcasts, on everything, and you can find just as many people arguing that this parenting style is right, and here's all the research why. But you can also find just as much research on the other side of things, and I feel like it becomes overwhelming for a parent to be like I don't know which way we're going, let's just let someone else figure that out. And so I think that's what happens. I think nowadays, parents are like I don't, there's too much information, I don't know how to sort through it all, so I'm gonna let someone else sort through it all, because it just feels like too much. But again it boils down to like truth, and truth is getting lost in so many other things.
Speaker 2:Well, haley, I love every aspect of that and we're gonna leave everybody like this, like they're on the. We're gonna solve all those things next podcast. So we're bringing you back. And so, adrian, you gonna come back for that one. We'll see. All right, yeah, maybe All right. So we're definitely bringing Haley back. Hey, if you got any questions specifically for Haley and you wanna talk counseling or like anywhere with a direction of counseling, conservatism and mixed Christianity, any of that stuff you wanna talk, or you just wanna talk more about Haley's life, we're all about that Just text us in at 737-231-0605. We'd love to hear from you.
Speaker 3:I feel like you should say that number slower. That was very fast 737-231-0605.
Speaker 2:Or just go to pastorplekcom, drop a line there. We would love to hear from you. This is like our favorite thing interacting with your questions and so we're bringing Haley back, so you can be confident of that. So tune in. So, from our house to yours, have an awesome week.