Pastor Plek's Podcast
Blending Finances and Faith with Financial Advisor Jake Ridley
296: Pastor Plek and Adrienne are joined by friend and financial advisor Jake Ridley to talk all things generosity, financial savvy, and life's unexpected turns. Whether you're handling personal finances or church funds, this episode is a treasure trove of insights on marrying wealth with biblical principles, confronting the challenges pastors face in the financial realm, and transforming giving from an obligation to a joy.
Got questions? Text us at 737-231-0605!
Like, share, and subscribe! We love seeing and responding to your reviews and comments.
Support the show: https://wbcc.churchcenter.com/giving
296: Pastor Plek and Adrienne are joined by friend and financial advisor Jake Ridley to talk all things generosity, financial savvy, and life's unexpected turns. Whether you're handling personal finances or church funds, this episode is a treasure trove of insights on marrying wealth with biblical principles, confronting the challenges pastors face in the financial realm, and transforming giving from an obligation to a joy.
Got questions? Text us at 737-231-0605!
Like, share, and subscribe! We love seeing and responding to your reviews and comments.
Support the show: https://wbcc.churchcenter.com/giving
Welcome back to Pastor Plek's podcast. I'm your host, pastor Plek, and with me in studio once again is another than my really sweet wife Adrienne Plek-Impola. Adrienne, how are you?
Speaker 2:Good, I'm feeling really sweet today too.
Speaker 1:So you are a little spicy. How are you feeling?
Speaker 2:I'm okay so far. Give me a couple more hours, let's see, have you had coffee yet? Today I have. I ran four miles too. I'm okay so far.
Speaker 1:Okay, give me a couple more hours, let's see have you had coffee yet?
Speaker 2:today I have. I ran four miles too Good for you. I'm really motivated.
Speaker 1:Now the real guest. Not that you're not a real guest, but the guest that we're going to be talking to today is none other than Jake Ridley, and if you don't know Jake, you definitely need to know Jake. Jake did 10 years 10, 12 years ago. I'm super grateful for Jake and the ministry he provided for us until he fired us, Cause we had some crazy things happening in Africa that we couldn't really account for.
Speaker 3:I don't know if we could account for them. You're the only client that we fired, by the way. What's that? You're the only client that we, that we fired, by the way.
Speaker 2:I didn't ever know we were fired, oh yeah we were fired Long story.
Speaker 1:Were fired long story, glad to know. Uh, that was circle. It all comes back around. Yeah, we, we did some creative accounting in, uh, tanzania it was. It was a little we, you know, because we owned land in tanzania, yeah, and um, it was a wild time but we traumatic for your bookkeeper to try to keep up with it.
Speaker 3:We couldn't keep up with that, so we're like wait wait, what is this?
Speaker 1:Buy goats, pigs, corn. Anyway, it was, it was a wild time. So, jay, I'm so glad you're back. Motorcycle, motorcycle, oh man Trucks, I mean we bought it all. I mean it was, it was.
Speaker 2:Might've had some financial anxiety at church biz. I don't know.
Speaker 1:Adrian would not be happy about financial anxiety.
Speaker 2:Adrian do you want to talk to him. No, I don't. I don't.
Speaker 3:Okay, that's good.
Speaker 1:All right, so, um, so the reason I brought you on here is one of the things that Jake does is you're a financial advisor, who are you with A story of strategic will, okay, so, and the thing that I thought was cool uh, jake sends out like emails like everybody sends out emails that are really, you know, boring and you put them in your spam. You don't read them. But Jake's actually caught my eye and I actually read every one of them. So I, I actually find them interesting. Like I love it when you give me like a like a mid, you know medieval quote from somebody and then you kind of show how the market fluctuated, even back then and economic times throughout history. I really, I actually enjoy all of it. Uh, and they're not way too long where you just want to like, okay, this. Uh, and they're not way too long where you just want to like okay, this says what's the name of the company?
Speaker 2:again?
Speaker 3:Uh story of strategic wealth.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's cool. Yeah, very cool Story of strategic wealth.
Speaker 1:Named after.
Speaker 3:Like Jay Astor, or whatever there's a neighborhood in New York called Astoria.
Speaker 1:So that's where it came from.
Speaker 3:So I'm not from New York. Uh, yeah, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it doesn't sound like you're from New York, but anyway, well, so, okay. So that's why I I, after I started reading that, we started talking at the football fields or soccer fields or whatever they are being used for at the moment.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Multi-use fields. I was like Jake man, I definitely want to have you come on the podcast because I feel like you've got a lot to offer. And so, as we started talking, we're like we really kind of want to get into three areas. One, just generosity, is specifically one of the things that you sort of, as you manage people's wealth, one of the things you're trying to challenge people, especially Christians, is how to give generously, and that's something that churches need to talk about, because in general, we just either shy away from it and we don't talk about that, or we just kind of go give your money today. That's kind of a there's you know spectrum of of talking about money and then, uh, secondly, we want to talk just about a general biblical approach to money in general, like not just like giving, but like how to manage, steward the wealth that god's given you. And then, finally, I as a personal, like bias, I want you to give me free financial advice as a pastor.
Speaker 1:I want to talk about how pastors really we we have a unique, if you're not familiar with pastors have the weirdest um, and I probably made some mistakes I probably need to correct uh, based on some advice I was given 12 years ago, uh, by certain people, Anyway. So we're going to talk about that's kind of the direction where I want to go. So, um, jake, let's talk about generosity in general. Uh, told me recently you got a little generosity get-together. How did you even come up with this? It was like, hey, guys, let's talk generosity.
Speaker 3:So it was a member of Hill Country Bible, which is where we go, lakeline, and one of the members is super passionate about generosity. His name is John Jonas and he was a Dell employee and just had his life changed by.
Speaker 1:You know, generosity and uh and just say, his life changed, like he started giving first, then Jesus, or it was yeah, I don't know the exact order of it, but, um, just you know, and putting words into John's mouth.
Speaker 3:But you know, his focus was on money as a Dell executive and you know, really felt God calling him to give and just saw God release his control and his, you know, love for lack of a better word for money and wants other people to experience the love that he has for God through generosity. So, yeah, so it's helping others experience the same journey that he's experienced.
Speaker 1:And so did he call a meeting, or how did that come about?
Speaker 3:So yeah, so he's in the middle of coming up with a curriculum to help churches and members of churches become more generous, and so it was really an exploratory conversation. He invited some people from the church to just kind of vet like hey, this is what I've got in mind, here's some ideas, here's some biblical principles, and we just talked it out together. So it was super inspiring and encouraging and insightful.
Speaker 1:So you told me, like before this, you're like essentially what you kind of compressed it down to. When it comes to people, there's four types of different givers.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that was one of the big insights that I got from this. You know, seminar or get-together was, and it really resonated with me that there's four types of Christian givers. There's the non-givers, which is just what it sounds like they don't give.
Speaker 1:What do you think that the reason for the not giving is?
Speaker 3:Probably the same reason that people struggle to read their Bible pray.
Speaker 1:They don't have time. I see it as a spiritual discipline.
Speaker 3:Right, it could be financial, like they're just don't have a place in their budget for. But when I say giving, I'm not even referring to to a 10% tithe, I'm just talking about giving like a dollar. A dollar, right, yeah, and so um. So I would say it's not usually like most people, even if they're in debt, they can give a dollar to the church. So it's usually um, either they just they don't know they're new Christians and they've never been taught that.
Speaker 1:Right, and I think so, adrian. You grew up in a Christian home that was pretty taught that Right, and I think so, adrian. You grew up in a Christian home that was pretty, pretty like. That was like giving was not, not, not. Was it called an option? It was, but it was like something you were trained from from the get go. How did your parents instill that for you?
Speaker 2:That's a good question. I don't know. It was just always something that we did. So I did grow up in a legalistic church and my parents had grown up in that same, and so there was definitely-.
Speaker 1:You're not referring to Hill Country. You're talking about before Hill Country.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, we were raised Church of Christ, and Church of Christ is very just, very legalistic and there's a little bit of theology that would suggest that there is a direct correlation to your obedience and your salvation, and so I think that. But it was pretty effective for creating some great tithers and creating a great habit. I mean, this is where it's so, this is where you can criticize all day long, but at the end of the day, like I don't know anyone that has a more faithful like giving prayer life, Bible reading life than my parents and my grandparents.
Speaker 1:So there's fruit from that. You criticize it all you want, but man, there's a lot of fruit from that. It was effective.
Speaker 2:And it was it's. It's a sad strategy to get effectiveness, but I think it's actually kind of cool once you have the discipline just instilled in you and you've seen the blessing Like.
Speaker 1:this is the great thing about God is like but when you were in middle school you didn't have that fear part because you were at Hill Country then and so I think. But you still had a tithing.
Speaker 2:Just because I was at hill country doesn't mean like the theology had gone away. I definitely I was sharing the gospel out of fear, for sure, um, but I definitely felt like um, this is where I think God blesses our, like, our motive for giving. It doesn't have to be always pure, god bless. There's still blessing, I think, for his. I think there's blessing in the discipline, even if our motive is maybe misinformed.
Speaker 2:And so I feel like, for growing up and for with my parents, I saw just tremendous discipline and I, for me, it was like we passed a basket down the whatever down the pew and I would always just like it wasn't even a question. It was like I just never, ever, did money come to me that there was even a question, that you wouldn't give a 10th of it and so but for. But this is where, for me, when we got married and you were actually I was feeling some conviction in this before our marriage, like I remember I was a teacher and I was giving 10% of my teaching salary and I remember feeling a little bit like God was asking me to give towards some other, like you know, like a third party thing, asking me to give towards some other, like you know like a third party thing. I think it was maybe a friend, that was a missionary or something, and I was like, well, I have to subtract this from my. It was very mathematical, like this is my tithe was not going to go over 10%.
Speaker 2:And so this can only fit in this certain way. And the thought, when I married you, of like we're just going to like, throw 10% to the wind, I was like, like, like that was mortifying because there was no faith in my, in my discipline. It was just kind of anyway, so, but that's really not I I was trained.
Speaker 1:I think it's training. Yeah, you were trained like, like when you got your first paycheck from heb there was not a question, it was like did they have to tell you that no? No you knew, with your first paycheck, 10 I mean I would get birthday money from my great-grandma.
Speaker 2:She would give us like 10 ones, and I would always give one to the. I mean it was since I was like four. I was like here's my dollar for the church from the 10 we're behind the curve on that stuff, yeah our kids are yeah, okay well you know all right, sorry go back, that's to your point like you asked
Speaker 3:about know the no giver Like I think, just like any other, I think it's a spiritual discipline and I think, just like you know, you don't wait for your the right motives to start reading your Bible, or you'd never read your Bible, or pray, or and so so starting giving like just start giving, not not talking about tithing, but just start giving to your church. I think not to get too into the theological weeds, but I think Paul provides pretty practical reasons for giving, to not muzzle the ox.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:Right, like if you're plowing behind an ox and you muzzle it and it can't eat, then you don't have an ox for much longer to plow behind. And so he says to provide for those physically who provide for you spiritually. And so if you're getting a benefit and you're being loved and shepherded by your church, then I think it's good to give, or otherwise you won't have a pastor to provide. That, like, it's pretty practical reason. And so there's the no giver, there's the reluctant giver. So they give but they really hate it, yeah, um. Then the third type is a dutiful or a willful giver. So they're not cheerful but they do it out of out of duty, which kind of.
Speaker 3:Does that with me, for that's how I am for the most part is it's a dutiful and then, uh, the fourth is a cheerful giver, and so I just think there's different approaches for different like you can't just give a blanket. Like you need to give right. Like if you know the stats are, 30 to 50% of church members give right and so you're excluding, you know, roughly half of your church that already are giving. But they may be reluctant givers, they may be dutiful givers or they may be cheerful givers and just helping, shepherd them through that and become I'm not sure if you.
Speaker 1:I'm not sure if I'm allowed to ask questions.
Speaker 3:Have you gone from a dutiful giver to a cheerful giver?
Speaker 2:So this is what I always say to this is I firmly believe I read the treasure principle back before our first giving campaign and that book really wrecked me because it um, treasure principle was very I don't really read books in general and so it was a big deal that I read it, but it was very small and it only took maybe a couple of hours and I was it rocked my view of giving because it presented giving it as this honor and this privilege of partnering with the Lord and the kingdom and I was like Whoa, this was like none of this was ever on my mind when it came to giving.
Speaker 2:But what was cool about it is we had been married, I think probably about five years at that time, and I had always told people like I do believe I'm receiving the blessing of generous giving because I'm married to Chris, even though I'm annoyed and irritated that he's giving the amount that he's giving, I really do believe that I still am a part of the blessing and so that was softening my heart. So my heart was being softened over time by that. But I was also like kind of critical too of Chris, because I'm like, oh, this is unwise, like obviously you're not using wisdom. I really believed that, and so when I read the treasure principle, I was like shoot, it's telling you not to live in wisdom when it comes to generosity and giving. And it just so messed my worldview up when it came to generosity and giving.
Speaker 2:And and it was, it was just so messed my, my worldview up when it came to like finances and the kingdom of God and it helped in. It gave total validation to Chris's mentality that I had been kind of yoked to. That I then kind of decided to throw up my arms and be like, okay, I'm wrong, to be angry and bitter and resentful by his giving strategy, but I'm not yet able to say I'm like cheerful about it.
Speaker 3:And.
Speaker 2:I think that and I honestly feel like I'm still there, a little bit Like I threatened when we have marital arguments over money. I'm like, well, it looks like you're going to have to stop.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, it's usually whenever we can't afford something, it's I need to just take it from the giving.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Cause he, he likes to add percentage percentage every year, which, and I and I'm over here and I'm like I have some questions about the motive. I have some questions about all of this and I'm just like, okay, well, look look at you. This is the Lord, like you know, shutting you down on your, and I'm like who am?
Speaker 3:I I think, just providing the space to talk about that kind of thing, churches could not do a better job. Not hammering churches, but just providing that space to talk about those things Like where does faith and wisdom? Like, how much giving is there too much giving? Because if you take some of the like, yeah, there's a faith principle obviously in giving, but if you do like me and you take it to his logical so I should be given 100 or otherwise, I don't have enough faith, right, right that god's going to provide for me. And so just having some space to to talk about those things and wrestle through yeah, the way that I have things in the guilt.
Speaker 3:And then you add I mean, that's the like, that's the secret weapon that the church has right, and that's like one of my big convictions is to not be driven by guilt but by passion and conviction and so just having space to talk about that. Because, again, you've got these different types of givers and I've seen it in my own profession that there's some clients that I have that we, you know we see their charitable giving from the tax return and you know they don't give very much. But then I have other clients that you know I was literally meeting with one a couple months ago as a doctor has a very, very high net worth and you know he broke down in tears because he felt the responsibility of the wealth that he had and he wanted to be a good steward of that money. So that's just a different conversation and requires a bigger space to address than just you need to give to the church. You need to give 10% and then that's it.
Speaker 3:Because it's people's hearts that you're shepherding, and generosity is a big part of that.
Speaker 1:That's my soapbox. No, no, I think where this starts starts and this is why I asked Adrian earlier is like what you know, you got a discipline that got you to like the 10%. And I come around and I'm like let's do 1% more every year and you're like right For me, I you know as as one who kind of came, came into like owning my faith at really 22.
Speaker 1:That's when I started giving and I was like, okay, I'm gonna give 11, because I don't ever want to like make a mistake, so I give less than that. And then over time I was like when I was here, after reading the treasure principle, I said I only have enough faith to give one percent more. Because one percent more, I was like, okay, I can do one percent. And then the next year I was like, okay, we survived, let's do one. You know that was the whole Malachi 310,. Bring the whole tide in the storehouse that there may be food in my house. Test me in this as the Lord of hosts and see if I can open the windows of heaven, pour down for you a blessing until there's no more need For me. What that meant for me it was I can trust God and God's given me this amount of faith and I'm going to operate in this and I would love that my faith to stretch. And so, as we've given more, there hasn't been, and I don't want to say that there's not going to be a change in your standard of living, Like as if like yeah
Speaker 1:cause. I don't want to I'm not name it, claim it, but when? When I think you told me this, which I think this is the funny part that you is like, if you have a need, why don't you ask God for it? And so, um, when it came to giving, and I think last year, when our uh, when our kids made it rain in our garage from the upstairs, uh, bathroom, uh, and then when an air conditioner went out and I was like, okay, we we hit like three huge financial expenses at the beginning of the year, right when we had added a percentage and that was nerve wracking.
Speaker 2:But yeah, did you. I'll let you finish, no.
Speaker 1:And then that's when I started tracking. I started, I took, I got a spreadsheet out and I was like okay, the Lord said, test me in this. All right, I'm putting you to the test. And so I got. I have my, my spreadsheet from 2023. You know what we gave and, with all the expenses that we had, you know what we received, which is this is the wild part.
Speaker 2:What we received was like well, hang on, but it was you were tracking what we received. That wasn't like a part of regular income, Like it wasn't a plan.
Speaker 1:So what?
Speaker 2:so what we gave was X amount and then we'll receive was like like almost 10 times that it was a lot more it was like a wild thing, and so that's where I'm like God is trustworthy, yeah Well and what it's taught me in in some of this is like the Malachi is a three 10 is. That was really convicting to me, cause God literally does say test me and this and see if I don't open the storehouse. I mean he doesn't say see if I don't like, give you your daily bread, like he doesn't actually say that it wasn't 10 times, it was three, it was 213%.
Speaker 1:So, uh, we received back 213% of what we gave, yeah, out of from, gave from outside of like the church salary or whatever of like and some of that was some of those things we did.
Speaker 2:We worked for some of that money but it wasn't expected Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think that. So what I have learned from some of this like financial stress, that I feel is for me, like the finances are a way of the there's security for the future. There's security for things that we need that we might not see right now, and what I, what I had, the one of the ways in which we've seen God provide because we're kind of looking for it um is like we've been given. There was this like weird weekend, this military camp that allowed us to come. This was like a, this was like four years ago, but we basically got probably what would have been a thousand dollar like family camp experience.
Speaker 2:Way more than that yeah.
Speaker 1:Probably like $2,000. I mean, we had a professional counselor following us, it's true, and it was completely free.
Speaker 2:It was like we got invited to come on this experience with our kids, and it was like giving us that cash would have been far inferior to the experience that God just gave us.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's a great point, and so I think that that's what I started to recognize. I'm like, okay, god isn't confined to our to like cashflow and so what the things our marriage actually needs and things our family actually needs can be met with other than like just checks in the mail or just cash. And that's really where I'm trusting God to provide us with the right experiences, the right opportunities, like even this women's retreat. I got to speak at this women's retreat a couple of weekends ago and as part of my weekend I was, I got to run on the beach twice. I got to do long runs on the beach and I had this great spiritual time with God and I felt like I heard from God on some areas where I'd been really asking and not not hearing, and it was like I needed that more than I needed any amount of money, but yet I left with $500 that we weren't planning on. That like really helps. It's just. It helps, I think, by by giving to a place where I feel nervous.
Speaker 1:What I've seen is God provide not with cash, but with opportunity and actual provision for the things that our family and our life are way bigger needs, but also, but we mean, like I said, when last year we wanted to get a new car because my car was a dying, yeah, and there was a part of me I had a little bit of pride like look how crappy my car is, I know, uh, and. And then, um, I was, you know, looking for a used truck that was you can't get too nice of a truck with a, been a pastor though.
Speaker 3:You can't, you can't. But here's what happened. Here's what happened, right so out of nowhere.
Speaker 1:Um, a bunch of people donated money to me, just not not through the church, just like. Here's a check for like twenty two thousand dollars and then, and then someone else gave me a check for fifteen thousand dollars and you have to spend this on a car. And so there I am and I was like I was originally going just like with six thousand dollars, and so I put all that into a brand new truck, and so there now I'm driving. I'm like the ultimate thing of what I've never seen it.
Speaker 3:I was wondering how you?
Speaker 2:it's insane right like there's no way you should be wondering yeah, you should be.
Speaker 1:Like that was not part of the plan. I was like looking for like a, you know, a, 2010, 2012, you know, like truck that could, you know, hold, hold six kids and put crap in the back, but like I think that was where it was sort of shocking to kind of see the overabundance, that a blessing that God gave, not because we were like like I don't know how to like that was.
Speaker 2:it was unexpected and it was a huge blessing, and I don't have a huge explanation for it, but I just feel like God.
Speaker 1:yes, so God has provided sometimes with cashflow, and God put that on the hearts of one of our elders, who put it on the hearts of a bunch of, and so it wasn't like one person just came and dropped a check, it was like a bunch of people. But I think, in looking for God's provision.
Speaker 2:What I've, I guess for me, what I've seen is and what's helped me be more cheerful giver with money, is I'm like okay, my needs are actually not all financial.
Speaker 1:They feel financial, but they're way bigger than financial. To your point about like the retreat or whatever.
Speaker 2:So I can let go of some money more generously and more cheerfully because I'm, because this money really isn't the conduit to like a more joyful life Really. God is going to. I'm trusting God to provide that through other ways, and so it has helped me be a more cheerful giver of actual money.
Speaker 3:So not so much as a direct, you gave, you experienced joy when you put money in the play or whatever, but you experienced the living.
Speaker 1:God come through, yes, like, and that's where the joy in a wild way, like you're sitting there going like like when I got the check for like it was a 22 grand, I was like like it was just overwhelming.
Speaker 3:Like oh man, this is like I just think stories like that, like that's the kind of stuff that people like myself like. It's encouraging to me hearing you guys talk about it and whenever I think back, like you know, there's there's a big faith component to giving Like there's no mathematical Right.
Speaker 1:You have 213%, you know.
Speaker 3:Um, but like, the verse that always sticks out to me is when David's about to fight Goliath and they're telling him don't do it. And he says the God who rescued me from the paw of the lion and the paw of the bear will rescue me from this Philistine. And so, just remembering when God came through, like you just pulled up your spreadsheet, Like I love that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so Cause I said I remember like going into 2023, I was like this is the first time I've ever felt uncomfortable about how much we're giving. And then I was. I was like all right, I just want.
Speaker 2:He said test me, I'm going to put it in a spreadsheet and then yeah, and, but you have to be, you have to be looking for it because it's very easy, right, it's very easy to look for it or to not look for it and to still have received all those same things and just felt like, oh good, we're back at zero, or like we're going to make it, like we could have viewed it all as like.
Speaker 1:Yeah, our washer and dryer was dying, and then someone gave us a brand new washer and dryer.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was so bizarre it wasn't always needs that we were even communicating. But if we hadn't been looking for these things as God's provision, I think you can see coincidence. And you can also choose discontentment, Like we could receive the money, Like I forget a couple of the things. I even like this is where I'm the person, I'm the Satan, I guess. But I'm like there was a couple of things where we got money and I'm like, well, yeah, like that that's not even going to cover what this cost. Or like I can't even celebrate this because this isn't enough.
Speaker 2:And or or like you just worked really hard. You just went away for a weekend and spoke somewhere and I was alone with the kids and like, okay, fine, we can call that provision, but like do we really believe that that was provision or just us working? And so it's like you can always naysay the provisions that God is giving, and so if you're not in the discipline of looking for his provision as a gift from him and as something that is like abundance, then you won't see it as that.
Speaker 1:Nice. So how do we train? And, jake, maybe you can speak to this, cause you've got young kids as well Uh, how are you and, as a financial guy, are you training your kids with this stuff?
Speaker 3:early on. That's a really great question.
Speaker 1:I mean. So tell us the answer.
Speaker 3:So I struggle with it. We definitely have the discipline side down, so we give them an allowance when they clean their room and do all the weekly things that they're supposed to do, and we created three jars for them spending, saving and giving and we give them $5 a week. They put one, we make them put one in, spending one and saving, and then three are sorry, three and spending one and saving one and giving. And so, um, and so we've been doing this, I don't know, for about a year now, and there's not this like, oh, thank you, thank you, like I can't wait to give. You know they don't they? Like why are we doing this? Like, why do I put this money in this jar?
Speaker 3:And like, and so it's funny, this morning we actually got an email from um, uh, mission of hope, yeah, which is the?
Speaker 3:You know they help kids in haiti, yeah, and um, you know it's really bad in Haiti right now and there's a lot of stuff going on and they needed help, and they sent the story of a boy that is 13. And so, anyways, we actually got to talk about that this morning, as a family decided to give to that. So it was helpful. Hopefully, again, there wasn't some like big Jesus moment and they were like, oh, thank you, I'm so glad you made us put money in the giving jar and we can't wait to give, like it was just like okay, yeah, that sounds great. But hopefully, you know, get back with me 20 years from now they're on a podcast and talking about their upbringing to see if it actually, you know, helped. Right, that's the way we approach. It is just um the discipline and hopefully their heart will follow and and presenting opportunities for giving, like the haiti, you know mission, to where you can actually see like, oh, we're helping a starving child, yeah, you know, and so, so, yeah, so, yeah, so that's.
Speaker 1:I think that's huge and I think, talking for us like anytime we, we, when we got the truck, uh, I think we went through I said this is God's faithfulness, this is a gift from God, and you know just kind of, hey, why do we have this truck? Oh, because, because God is faithful to us. I think that's just kind of reiterating that over and over for us and the kids have learned the lingo.
Speaker 2:So the kids will say look what God provided. They'll say that and I don't know if they really understand I don't think they understand that yet, but they do see it that way and um, but that's a lot of like trading of verbiage that hopefully will pay off Hopefully, I mean, it's hard, you can't know right now but I even feel like, um man, I had something.
Speaker 2:Oh, I know I hit this point because we aren't back to our point earlier. Okay, we're not like. I was raised in a very high structured home environment and we don't have that happening in our home and we have a clean house.
Speaker 1:For the most part. We do have a very clean house. Sometimes there's vacuuming at 1130 at night, but we have a clean house.
Speaker 2:Often there's vacuuming at 1130. Keep it a bed if the floors aren't Okay.
Speaker 2:But we don't have a high structured home and situation and I didn't marry, I think part of that I was raised doing habitually Are we really doing? And I used to feel fear over that and like kind of shame over that. And now I've like, and I think what I felt conviction in, like probably I think it was about four years into being a, maybe five, five years into being a parent I felt conviction over like there's not one way, there's not a cookie cutter way to instill in your children the discipline of giving.
Speaker 2:And there's a lot of, there's a lot of right ways and it ultimately just comes down to a parent, I think, having a huge heart and discipline and allowing God to kind of convict you. And so there's been times where I was like, because we're not very methodical and very high structured in how we're executing things, like we have to take advantage of opportunities that our church is after. So when it came time, like when we do our Thanksgiving back every November um, I remember this this year specifically I was like the kids had like change and Austin had a bunch of change in a jar. And I was like hey had like change and Austin had a bunch of change in a jar. And I was like, hey, we're going to this thing at church and, of course, like you've left, I'm annoyed, Everyone's crying, we have to get there. And I'm like, Nope, this is the, this is my chance. They think we're giving money to people in need at this thing, and so, um, we're just going to be 30 minutes later and we're going to sit down with this coin jar and get him.
Speaker 2:And he didn't want to give up. He was four or five, he didn't want to give up any coins from his jar. And I explained how we're doing this and this is why we're doing this and then he came to the event and I kind of forced him to put it in the into something whatever reciprocal that we had. But it was like and none of that felt too powerful in the moment. But then those things add up and they do.
Speaker 2:He is mindful, he is aware, and then we have we've been doing operation Christmas child as a church and part of my hope, part of my desire for that was like there's so much, they have so much footage of, like the kids and the different countries and different levels of poverty, and you get to see, and then when we put together a box full of pretty much trinket trash that they don't, that they wouldn't be terribly excited about, I'm like these are colors, these are things these kids don't have. This is a soccer ball for them to get this soccer ball is a huge deal. They don't have 10 in their backyard that they don't take care of, and so it's like kind of trying to make that feel real to them.
Speaker 3:Gotta sprinkle in some guilt right.
Speaker 2:Really taking every opportunity for a little, a little drive by, but I do feel like some of that.
Speaker 2:So then when we come and we get together to do that the Christmas boxes it's like trying to help take advantage of opportunities that the, that the local church is doing and that has been filling in the gaps of like maybe this methodical, systematic approach.
Speaker 2:And when we did Christmas, like we called it Christmas, we would bring Christmas to families. I would never, I would always, force myself to bring the kids. I'm like we're going and we're picking out toys that aren't for you, they're for these other families, and we're going to, you're going to come with us and you're going to give and we're going to go to their house and if you're, if it's dangerous, oh well, we're trusting God, we're going to this house and you're going to see these kids and you're going to see these families. And I think that so that has been kind of our approach has just been like it's not very methodical, it's not very, it's not as systematic as I would like, but I feel like God is showing up in those moments and using them and that there's fruit in just kind of living your life intentionally.
Speaker 1:All right. So I want to go from that to back to you, Jake moving people. I don't know if there's a right way to put this, Like hey, I'm a reluctant giver. I don't know if there's verbiage, or I don't know if there's, like when you guys got together, like how do you move someone from a reluctant giver to an obligated giver, an obligated giver, an obligated giver to a cheerful giver? How do you meet people?
Speaker 3:I think that's where pastors and, honestly, my job overlaps with, because we're dealing directly with people's money Do you ever speak into that?
Speaker 1:Is that like a weird thing for you to do?
Speaker 3:Yeah, you can kind of feel. I mean again, you can see people's tax returns, you can see if they give, and this is a highly relational job and so um. So you get to know people and you pick up on like this is where we go to church and you can kind of like Does that cross a line, though?
Speaker 1:I mean, if you're like hey, so I noticed your net worth's like a mill. You just gave, like you know, $5,000.
Speaker 3:So no, I have not. Yeah, I haven't been that bold, right, right, right, I mean you need to give more. I haven't been that bold, right, right, right, you need to give more. Yeah, yeah, I haven't done that. But to your point, like it's a heart thing, yeah, and so there's not a, it's a shepherding Right there could be. Is it fear, is it greed, is it like?
Speaker 3:I mean, there's all sorts of and there's no like formula or program in my opinion that you can like, implement, I think, just providing the space to be able to talk about it, you know, transparently and with someone that they trust.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's where discipleship comes, comes in as Cause usually you know it's funny We'll talk about porn, sex, sexual struggles, but we won't talk about money. Totally, it is a. I think that is the God of this age. Obviously, the God of our country is money. It's so much we're not ashamed about our sexual issues and how we've been staring at porn or whatever the thing is. But we will be like don't you even go toward my money Totally.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think it's just. I think you know this is this is my, my view today. I, I uh view today. I could change this view, but I think churches don't have the healthiest view of money. Also, pastors struggle with money. I mean there's a whole ball of guilt and shame and pastors, in my experience no offense, but like you guys, aren't wired for money. Like you have shepherding type hearts, money type hearts, which is more of a practical and so and so there. And then there's the whole like we were just talking about with your truck, like I can't drive too nice of a truck right or otherwise people get.
Speaker 3:So yeah, so I can't really address, I can't really talk about that. So there's all sorts of barriers set up to not have just an open space to talk about. Even things like one of the takeaways from the get-together I was talking about earlier was, you know, church members struggle with it feels different. So we want to be cheerful givers, right, and that's the biblical, you know principle and that's how it's supposed to feel. That's what, that's how it's painted. The experience is supposed to be right, but practically, in my opinion, it just feels different to give to a starving kid in Haiti and your church's budget.
Speaker 1:Right, right, like hey, let's pay to keep the lights on.
Speaker 3:Totally, that's not exciting. And so just having that conversation of like it's not all like the tried and true verses that get brought up, you know, or the believers in Acts sharing everything with their like, that's different than giving to the general fund of a megachurch, right, right, and so just, I'm not saying that you shouldn't give to the you should because you're receiving spiritual benefit, right, and so just, I'm not saying that you shouldn't give to the you should because you're receiving spiritual benefit. But just opening up that conversation of like, cheerful is going to look different, and it just feels different to give to a starving kid in Haiti than to the church that you attend. So, just opening that box up to at least be able to talk about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because I think here it is, a lot of people are like this was like well, I want my money to go to this specific ministry, and that's like the direct giving big taboo, like right, that you can't do, but like, have a heart for this, and I've, and there is a way to communicate that, the trust.
Speaker 1:I think this is a hard part, for now I'm in church giving. Yeah, like whenever you saw the um, the early church and acts, they would lay the money at the apostles feet and I don't know if that meant they actually lay it. You know, probably because it was so heavy, they just dropped a bag of change at their, at their feet, but they laid at their feet, meaning, do with this as you see fit, yep, which is, if that is feeding a kid in africa, or if that's, uh, paying salary, or if that is like the building campaign, whatever the thing is, that's a wild thing to do because it, it, it, it. You lose control. And then, when you lose control, I think that's where you're I don't want to say this not truly right. You are giving to God all throughout that, but I think you get to experience the benefit of not having to control the finances of, of whatever the thing is you're giving to. And then you're, you're saying this is for God, for his use.
Speaker 3:Totally. It's so hard to do, but to like, there's a balance, I think, in that too, though, and if you create too big of a bureaucracy like this is a Milton Friedman idea yeah, who's a famous economist, right? And who's a famous economist, right. And the further away you are from the front lines or whatever, the further you wait you give a dollar, and the more red tape there is, the more people there are in between that dollar and where it ends up, the less it affects you and moves your heart.
Speaker 3:I almost think of it like you're driving down the road and you see the sign that says your tax dollars at work. Yeah, right, that doesn't have any, that doesn't do anything for right. It doesn't feel like I gave and supported that road Right, and so sometimes it can feel like that. Honestly, if, if you're given to a big I'm just speaking personally, you know, and it shows, you know, we look at the amount of salvations or the amount of like money that actually made its way to you know, mission of hope or whatever, and like it doesn't do it, it kind of feels like the sign that says your tax dollars at work, and so I don't know if there are practical ways to engage people, to engage that and connect your heart closer to the dollars that you, that you give, rather than and. But to your point, yeah, you can't like you also can't just control every single dollar. There is a faith component of like do you believe that they're going to steward your money Well at the church that you give to?
Speaker 1:yeah, that's good. I mean there's a couple obviously we do direct to giving you know benevolence gala that we do. That becomes like the exciting thing to give to and sometimes there's a risk for us Like we have our number one budget item in our entire church is our giving to the poor.
Speaker 1:Like it exceeds the youth ministry, children's ministry, number one thing giving to the poor, which does zero benefit for the church, but man, it sure feels good to be able to kind of impact the community. So I think there's a reality, I think're addressing something and like how do we engage people's hearts in a way that giving becomes something that is internally, intrinsically motivated but also has practical value?
Speaker 2:it's to me it's very interesting to me. This is sort of what I think about with like serving, like with volunteers serving. It's like you, you need them and you are. They're coming and they're showing up, but for them to stick around and value the ministry, they have to see their impact being a lot more significant than just these four kids for this hour and a half.
Speaker 2:They have to see that as a much a kingdom impacting thing and they have to be reminded of that, which is interesting because I've never really thought about it with money. But it's also tricky because to me, on the flip side of that is the negative of like I just put on this Easter egg hunt Right and we had a whole bunch of people come. We had a lot of people.
Speaker 1:We had 200 people there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and a lot were not from our church. We had several families that different people.
Speaker 1:It was all of our neighbors that came to Wells Branch, which is sort of funny.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we had different families that different people in the church had been reaching out to, trying to reach. It was this big deal that they came and engaged, but it's like you could look at. So I have one group of people that's always complaining that what I put in the eggs is not good enough. Always have those people, and then I also probably have people who are like, oh my gosh, I can't believe the church used some of my tithe money to buy a sticky hand for the egg.
Speaker 3:You know, and so it's like.
Speaker 2:I think that, and so I think you can sometimes reach this point of a little bit of like. You can have a superiority or a pride or some judgment. That can come sometimes if you're too tied close. You can feel like man. I really sacrificed that money and gave it to God and then my church chose to, like you know, or then my church chose to buy coffee and, look, nobody drank the coffee because they didn't understand that that was only good at the ad hunt when it was cold, and this year it wasn't cold, and so it's like my church is wasted. They made a bad call, and so I think you have to be so careful with like. You really do have to trust that God is like you're giving this money to the kingdom of God and it's not returning void regardless.
Speaker 2:Right, but how do you also then, I think, remind people and emphasize, like this is a kingdom investment.
Speaker 3:I think, just being sympathetic to like that some people may have qualms or that actually may be a legitimate hang up that the givers don't really feel that connected to the end things that we're giving. So how can we help shepherd them to feel more connected to those things rather than similar to paying taxes? I throw it in the black box and somewhere, somehow it's my tax dollars or work.
Speaker 2:I really do like that, because imagine if the elementary school, like, had a list of things that they were able to do and how that impacted the kids, so, like your tax dollars were directly funding some of these things Like you might not feel so angry by. Yeah.
Speaker 3:I think it will connect your passions. Yeah, so connect your passions with that's how you're moving people. That's how you're moving people and like I get it Like. This is what I did for five years was accounting for churches and so trying to connect every dollar that somebody gives to the thing that, like is not 100% practical Right and so, but just ways of trying to move the needle to do that.
Speaker 1:All right, let's, let's. I want to shift to like just a approach to money, because this is kind of this is your, this is your bag, right, Like this is what you do. You help people steward wealth. Well, um, now, what's your approach to money? Are you a dave ramsey guy? Like, give me the like, give me. Like, yeah, like this is how we're talking earlier.
Speaker 3:It's gonna go like it's like a cottage industry hating on dave's dave ramsey is like there's a whole industry of people that hate on dave ramsey and is it like the ultimate clickbait?
Speaker 1:Like how Dave Ramsey is wrong?
Speaker 3:If you want to get clicks on LinkedIn or or I don't. I'm not on any other platforms, but Tik TOK, I hear uh Instagram, whatever.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Like you hate on Dave Ramsey, Right and so so I really liked Dave Ramsey Um, follow his steps. That you'll be great, Like I think. Getting out of debt, staying out of debt, living within your means like those are all core principles, that like it doesn't matter what you do with your investments If you can't live within your means.
Speaker 1:Is this a? Is this a true statement? Dave Ramsey is great for getting from people to pull from poor to middle-class, but he keeps meet people in middle class. They're not going to get rich by being yeah, there's some optimization.
Speaker 3:If, if you're poor and you follow dave ramsey and you never meet with someone like like myself, you're probably leaving some meat on the bone like there's probably some tax savings that you could, but you'll still be, you'd be fine. Right, but from an optimization standpoint, yeah, there's. There's things like his, you know, investment returns um are not, you know, realistic.
Speaker 1:He says 12% over time, I think if you're in a mutual fund or something is that right. Is that even close to true?
Speaker 3:He uses like a hundred years worth of data. And so, yes, if you invest in the US stock market, it's returned roughly 10%, you know, 10% over the last 100 years. That's not 12, but 10% still pretty good every year, for that compounds a lot, right. But the catch is you have to stay invested, right. And so that's through the Great Depression, that's through World War II, right. That's through COVID, that's through 9-11. 9-11. 2008. That's through 2008. When you, you know your portfolio drops 80%. So you put $100,000 in the S&P 500 and the Great Depression happens, and that $100,000 is now $20,000, like you're tempted to not tempted, like most people are going to wave the light flag and get out right. Or 2008, your $100,000 turns into $50,000 or, yeah, $50,000, a 50% drop. And so the key is you've got to stay invested.
Speaker 3:And I think that's probably where he is not um, realistic in terms of people's behavior, of being able to stomach that type of risk, right, um, or, a lot of people don't need that level of risk. So if your goals, so risk and return, are linked to the hip, if you want a higher return, you've got to take more risk. There's no free lunch, right? And so some people, you know. If their goals and their needs, in retirement, for example, are relatively modest compared to the assets that they have, then they don't need 12%. If they need 4% to achieve their goals, then why take the risk of 12%? Why risk being down 50%?
Speaker 3:at any given point when you could risk. 60-40 would have been down. 60% stock, 40% bond would have been down half that, 25%. So that feels way different than 50, right, and oh, by the way, they don't need the 12, they need a four or five or six percent and so so, anyway. So I like dave ramsey, I think he does a great job.
Speaker 1:Um, I think there's some optimization things, yeah, that he misses so tell me real quick about that, because I you said someone who's like middle-class, like you've got some. You need to meet with me to optimize. Tell me what meeting with you does for me, as opposed to like just you know. Hey, I snowballed, I have no debt, hallelujah.
Speaker 3:Uh, now what? So if you can do it yourself, it's a lot cheaper and you'll save a lot of money by not working with someone like myself. And so if you can do it yourself, it's a lot cheaper and you'll save a lot of money by not working with someone like myself. And so if you can do it by yourself this is what we tell people Like, if you can do it by yourself, like, do it, you'll save a lot of money by by doing that.
Speaker 3:But the reality is most people, as you accumulate more wealth, um, more money, the, the feeling is different, right, especially as you approach retirement, when that number that was on your 403B or 401K statement was just a number up until retirement. Now it's like your life. Now it's your life, it's your livelihood. And so that number that you know, in 2008, you know you had $100,000 and it dropped to 50,000. Now, in retirement, if you had $2 million, like, even though the percentage drop is the same, dropping from, say, 2 million to 1 million, is the percentage is the same, but that feels a whole lot different than, okay, this is my livelihood. In 2008, I was at the beginning of my career, right, right and so? So that's where someone like me or us would come in and say like there's just a behavioral and there's a difference in feeling, and uh, just the reality is different. Whenever you've got more stuff right, there's more risk.
Speaker 1:Okay, talk to me about this Cause. One thing I've heard about specifically retirement is you need a million dollars and then you need to take it out about 5% per year. Whatever to you know, that's what you're going to live off of, which I guess was 50,000 or so. So talk to me about is that? Is that the magic number Everybody wants? What's the number Jake Give?
Speaker 3:me the number it depends. So you need to see a financial advisor. I'm joking me, the number it depends. So you need to see a financial advisor. I'm joking. So it depends, right, it depends on um number one how much does it take to maintain your, your lifestyle? So a rough rule of thumb is there's a rule called the 4% rule, and that is, in retirement, you can pull out 4% of your account, increasing it, the rate of inflation for 25 years without running out of money, right, and so that's the 4% rule. Um and so, for example, if you have a million dollars, then that's $40,000 a year in spending, and so that's why I say it depends on. If you're used to living on $150,000 a year and your portfolio can generate $40,000 a year, then a million dollars isn't enough.
Speaker 1:You're not going to cut it Right.
Speaker 3:And so that's really where, getting back to Dave Ramsey, that really does matter. You've got to live within your means and understand, like, how much does it take to maintain the lifestyle that I want to, I want to live? And then you can answer, okay, well then, how much do you need? Right? And then you're going to incorporate social security. What if you've got? What if you're a teacher and you've got a pension, right? You know that all factors into the to the equation, right, and so so, yeah, so the number, it depends, right. If you're a doctor and you're used to living on $500,000 a year and you've got a million dollars and you're ready or wanting to retire, like, you're not going to be able to maintain a lifestyle of $500,000 a year with a million dollar portfolio, right, right, so it depends Way more Okay.
Speaker 2:So what would you say to like a person who is like a lot of our church? I think is in the category of like we are out of debt, we follow Dave Ramsey, we're out of debt. We have young kids and we're just living paycheck to paycheck and keeping our emergency fund filled and we don't have investments.
Speaker 3:So I would say a good rule of thumb is 10 percent and this depends on your age and how much you already have saved and all that.
Speaker 3:But if you're just say you're in your mid-30s and you're out of debt and you know you've got your emergency fund funded and all that, then a good starting point is 10% a year to your retirement, whether that's your 401k, your Roth IRA or whatever towards retirement which is investing. So 10% is a good starting point. And that includes your employer's match. So if your employer is giving you 3% and you're putting in 7% of your pay, that's 10% Right. So that's a good floor. 15% is a good. Like you know, you're getting a little more aggressive with with your savings, um, and then 20 is a is a pretty aggressive of your total pay. 20 of your total pay is a pretty aggressive and that's what you said.
Speaker 3:For pastors specifically, that totally that got opted out of social security totally, so yeah. So pastors again, this is where it gets on. It depends on your personal situation. So pastors can opt out of social security, and social security is usually, you know, 40 to 50% of a normal retirees income, right. And so if you're taken out what is used to be half of someone's income right In retirement, then you roughly need to contribute about double of what you would have otherwise contributed, right? So that 10% for a pastor really needs to be about 20 to 25% if you've opted out of Social Security. So yeah, so it depends. And if you need to play catch up, if you're in your 40s and you haven't really saved, then 20% is probably a good aggressive savings goal. Okay, that's really helpful.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's terrible. Actually Move that, giving right back down. All right, no, so, hang on. So, but talk to me about like beyond retirement, then, um, what about like other investments, like stock investments or yeah.
Speaker 3:So when I say 401k, that so. So the misconception is 401k is not an investment. All a 401k is is a wrapper around the investments, right, it's just a tax vehicle that the government has said, hey, you can set up accounts and call them 401ks and they'll be given tax preferential treatment, right?
Speaker 3:And so what's inside of the 401k are stocks and bonds, which are usually in the form of mutual funds okay and so mutual funds are just one big basket of stocks or bonds, and so there's usually thousands to even tens of thousands of stocks and bonds within a mutual fund, and so so, yes, so whenever I say investing, it's contributing to your 401k and you know not having it sit there in cash. Make sure that it actually is getting invested. A great starting point is what's called a target date fund for um. If you don't have any real strong you know there's probably 80% of folks would be perfectly well served with what's called a target date fund, and all that is is it's several mutual funds in in one wrapper and, um, they reduce the risk of the portfolio as you get closer to retirement.
Speaker 3:So that's what the target date is referring to, so if you're, you know, wanting to retire in 40 years, then there's what the target date is referring to. So if you're, you know, wanting to retire in 40 years, then there's probably a target date 2065 fund, right, right, and so it's going to be most likely in 100 percent stocks. So real rough way I think of it is stocks are the engine of your portfolio, bonds are the brakes, so stocks are going to go up and down more. Bonds are going to be a little more stable and provide less risk but also less return. And so when you're young, you want to be in a roughly you know stocks.
Speaker 1:You want to be in stocks, yeah.
Speaker 3:And so that's what a target date fund would do. And then, as you get closer to retirement, it'll go from 100% to 90% to 80%. So when you get to retirement, it could be, you know, 50, 50, 50% stocks, 50% bonds.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that that's. That's really helpful. Um, all right, so let's talk pastors for a second. Uh, because, um so if, if you didn't know this pastors get out of social security cause they can, if people right, right, we can, uh, and so I thought it was a great idea, cause I didn't know any better. Uh, what would you say to me now? Like, cause you know, I guess 12, whatever 12 years ago I got, I opted out.
Speaker 3:So so what I would tell young Chris Plekampole is I would show you the form that says you have to be a conscientious objector. Like this is a moral this isn't a financial decision. Like it's a moral decision that you, as a pastor, don't believe in. Basically, public insurance, which is what social security is. So if you have a, that's the whole reason for that provision is folks like the Amish and the Mennonite.
Speaker 3:I don't know if I don't know if Mennonite is, but those types of groups that completely self-insure themselves as a church body Right to pay into a national social insurance program at the expense of like? No, we've got that's what our church body is for, and so that's what I would ask. First, are you losing sleep at night over this? And I've met with a lot of pastors. I've never met one. Maybe I need to work with more Amish or Mennonite pastors. Maybe they are the ones that actually have a conscience. You know problem with this, but um, so that's the first. That's the biggest hurdle is it's not a financial decision, it's a moral. So how the heck did I get into this? I don't know so, but the good news is you do have a get out of jail free card. With when you've opted out as a pastor, you um, even though you've opted out personally.
Speaker 3:One one caveat to that is that doesn't mean that if you've paid in as a non-pastor, that it forfeits those benefits. So if you've paid in, if you had a secular job as a pastor and you're, you know, into the social security system, you've got your 40 credits, which is 10 years. All that, then you still get that benefit. It's probably going to be reduced, which is a whole nother rabbit trail. But or even if you work in a secular job after the pastoral ministry, you can build up social security credits and get a benefit from that.
Speaker 3:And so that's number one. But number two if you never pay into social security at all as a pastor, but your spouse has paid in, so they have the 10 years basically of social security credits, then you can get what's called the spousal benefit Now, you've never paid in at all. Then you can get what's called the spousal benefit Now, you've never paid in at all. You can get what's the equivalent of half of their benefit. So if your spouse is entitled to $2,000 a month, you as a pastor never paid a dime into Social Security and you get to retirement, you can pull the spousal benefit which would be $1,000 a month.
Speaker 1:So she would get 2000 and I would get a thousand.
Speaker 3:Yes, even though you never paid a dime into it, because the spousal benefit was. We're really getting into social security.
Speaker 2:I mean, am I getting social security?
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're paying in for social security.
Speaker 2:Good for us yeah.
Speaker 3:So yeah, so if you have social security, then that's your get out of jail free card, and it's funny because again we're getting way into the weeds. This is social security history.
Speaker 1:But I'd have to know that yeah, Because I think if we were just like trucking along, oh well, I don't have social security. She gets her $2,000. I have access to this $1,000. I never knew about.
Speaker 3:Yep, totally. So you got to know about it. And another hurdle is Social Security. Doesn't know this? A lot of times and they'll tell you that you can't get it because they refer to what's called the government pension offset and it's an exclusion that's made for teachers and government workers, that they can opt out of Social Security also. And yeah, I mean it's the most convoluted thing ever. Anyways, I think we've lost all of our listeners no, but this is unless we're talking about a retired pastor.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's like tell me the answers. I got it but um but.
Speaker 3:So if you're a government worker, then there's there's a thing called the government pension offset that doesn't allow you to pull the spousal benefit because you opted out, got it, and so social security workers falsely think that pastors fall under that and they don't.
Speaker 1:And so you need someone who, when you fill out your tax form, you go and fight it.
Speaker 2:And then you need to not feel guilty that the government's giving you some money.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I always feel guilty, and it came from a homemaker.
Speaker 3:So it was one of the first things that they, you know, implemented was they had social security. That started in the I can't remember the twenties and the teens, and one of the first things they recognized was okay, well, what if the spouse, what if there's a homemaker which most women were homemakers back in the day, right, like they don't get a benefit? Um and so, so they they created the spousal benefit, which is for people that have never paid into social security, which but you have been paying.
Speaker 2:Cause the army.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I, I had um.
Speaker 2:yeah, so would he be disqualified from a spousal Do you have 10 years worth.
Speaker 3:Maybe you have to log in.
Speaker 1:I probably have 11 years, because I got it from West point and I they paid me as a cadet and then seven years in the army and West Point and they paid me as a cadet and then, seven years in the army, got it, and when I got out, that's when it stopped.
Speaker 3:So so, so you can go to the social security website, log in and see you know, it'll show you exactly how many credits that you have and whether you qualify, and all that.
Speaker 1:So so yeah, Wow, all right, so I know that we've. We've gone a while here. This has been great, though. Um, let's talk to me Like, let's say someone's like hey, I man, I love all the things you said. I'm on board. Um, uh, I, you know, I don't want to be clueless when it comes to retirement. I want to be sitting there like I can't manage this myself. How does somebody get ahold of you?
Speaker 3:Jake and like what's their next step? Yeah, so you can go on our website, Astoria strategic wealthcom and contact us or contact me there. Um, I've got a blog called church fiduciary. That, uh the newsletter that you're referring to. That's where that church fiduciarycom, yeah, church fiduciarycom.
Speaker 1:Um, you can contact me there, linkedin, um, so yeah, all three of those We'll put all that in the show notes so that if you, if you're, you know, listen to the podcast and you want to, kind of well, just go click show notes and you'll see all the places to contact Jake. Man, jake, thanks so much for being here. This has been, uh I for some people maybe not so riveting, but for me very exciting. Uh, adrian, thanks for uh contributing, as you always do. Hey, listen, thanks for watching. If you got any questions, you can always text us at 737-231-0605 or go to pastorplekcom. We'd love to hear from you. We're talking finance and we always bring Jake back. I'll see him on the fields again, probably on Saturday or Tuesday or Monday or all the days, and we will bring him back and we can talk anything you want to do on finances and your faith. So, from our house to yours, have an awesome week of worship.