Pastor Plek's Podcast
Pastor Plek's Podcast
Faith Under Fire
310: What happens when Christian imagery collides with Greek mythology at a major event? Join Pastor Plek as he explores this controversial blend with guests Cody Sparks and Jordan Smith, who help break down the portrayal of Jesus in a drag spread during the Paris Olympics opening ceremony. They will delve into the broader cultural and religious ramifications, comparing these reactions with how other religions might respond to similar depictions. They also ponder the potential impact on children and discuss whether Christians are seen as ineffective in opposing such portrayals.
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and welcome back to pastor plex podcast. I'm your host, pastor plec, and joining me in studio today is none other than senor cody sparks. Welcome, cody sparks. Hello of the cody sparks band still here, and then also jordan smith. Uh, so glad that you can be joining us today, jordan. How are you?
Speaker 2:doing well, sir, thank well sir, thank you.
Speaker 1:All right. So we're going to be talking about something controversial and there's been a lot posted tweeted about this particular situation. I'd love to get some of your guys' feedback. Start with the old codester over here, cody. Oh, I'm playing catch-up.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, yeah, Not catch-up, catch-up ketchup, but a little bit right because I mean, this is a tough one yeah, but it's not well. No, I mean it's it's a little bit of mixture and my thing is is that, is it really the last supper? Is it greek mythology? Is it death riding in on the white horse, like we talk about on tombstone, or or is it? Or is it the other? It's?
Speaker 1:a hard to tie in it's paris.
Speaker 3:What do?
Speaker 1:you expect. Yeah, yeah, so there's a lot of that, um, so let's talk it through. I feel like there's a lot here, all right, um, I'm I'm probably thinking that this opening ceremony was not conducted by christ. Could we just all agree with that, has it?
Speaker 3:really any been. Yeah, I mean honestly it's like well, yeah, this is probably the worst one I've ever seen, though honestly, Right right.
Speaker 2:Well, there's some woke Christians too right.
Speaker 1:Sure, sure, okay, fair enough. But first off, there's a whole drag spread. I guess Jesus is a woman. There's a whole drag spread. I guess Jesus is a woman.
Speaker 1:And then they kind of do when they brought it on TV. You've got the woman there in the middle with the little heart and if you know this, jesus would always hold a little heart. So clearly she's representing Jesus. Now what the makers of the act have said is that it's just showing love, like we represent diversity, inclusion, all that, okay, fine.
Speaker 1:The problem is you've got like a posed situation, like slow motion of the characters in the background taking on different poses to sort of reflect a last supper attitude, and then the Greek god, dionysus, kind of comes down on a big dinner plate and so it's kind of a mix of and if you know this about now, this is where you could say it really is Dionysus, and the reason why I say that is Dionysus is the god of winemaking, orchards, fruit, vegetation, festivity, fertility, insanity, ritual madness, religious ecstasy and theater. So this does fit. It does fit with what they're doing. They want it to take ritual madness, religious ecstasy and insanity and put it all into one thing. I'm like you have honored.
Speaker 1:Well, if your goal was to honor Dionysus and if a byproduct of that was mocking Christianity, well done. You achieved your goal. But as a Christian, I look at that and I clearly know they are mocking Christ. And this is where you know, am I to judge non-Christians? Maybe not, but I think it's unloving to go. Yeah, that was funny Because it wasn't right, that was a horrific show of I don't know.
Speaker 1:I guess blasphemy I mean really. Imagine if this was like Muhammad and whatever the version of the Last Supper Muhammad had, there would be blood spilling all over the world. And what you're getting from Christians is going. That's disrespectful, you should not do that which just sort of shows why Christianity is so powerful. And what Elon Musk said is that Christianityianity is toothless, which I don't think.
Speaker 3:that's probably because elon musk doesn't understand the no, true right, so anyway, or is he saying we should be flipping tables right or should we flip it? No, the only people that that jesus flipped tables on?
Speaker 1:were religious leaders right and so clearly these are lost people doing lost things. Um, do they need to be held accountable? To whatever degree, you can cancel them. If you want to get back into where you have not a separation between church and state and the church is the state, then you'd probably have a problem, do you?
Speaker 3:think, though, that maybe he wasn't talking about just the Last Supper, that he was saying we're toothless due to the fact that we don't speak up when it's like drag in our face, pushing lbgtq rs tv on us, uh, throwing all the other things in our face, not just christianity, as in they're mocking the last supper, but all the above that happened there, because there was a lot of things that I was sitting there watching going. Are you kidding me? If I had a five, six, seven, eight year old older kid, I'd turn off right, this is out of control this.
Speaker 3:I watched it because I I love the olympics forever my whole life. I've always loved the olympics. That is the one that blew my mind yeah, there was just no reason for it.
Speaker 1:I like, I it's kind of like if you could do. And this is where, again, they make the argument. It's about Dionysus, yes, but you're using the Last Supper to celebrate Dionysus, which makes it even worse. Anyway, why would you have a naked man for a family? I mean, we would call that grooming, and there was a child in that. Um, last supper, reenactment and dionysus comes. Dionysus, the god comes down and a big dinner plate. Uh, is that's what they're going to eat, right, which is just a sexual? A naked dude is the sexual thing that genie it's so wild to me how that becomes.
Speaker 1:So I think your point let's go down your point your point is that Christians don't speak up enough, not just on a religious context, but about LGBTQIA issues, Politics.
Speaker 3:Politics, all the above, I mean yeah. It takes a president to get shot, assassination attempt for people to finally be like, okay, is it? That's enough, enough right, I mean if you if trump would have been, like, murdered, what would the outcome? That would probably broke out into the civil war. Really, I mean, it would have been weird, which is a whole side note on that.
Speaker 1:We're not going to go on a rabbit trail, but it's crazy okay, I'll pause on that I want to hear what you think the because you're thinking there needs to be more, at least vocal outrage from Christians.
Speaker 3:Well, it's more like stand up for yourself, be like hey, we don't want that, okay, fair enough, rather than us being just like passive just like eh, it's fine, We'll just not watch it or not do it Eventually, enough is enough.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Jordan, talk to me about your thoughts, thoughts, uh, you've, you've seen the.
Speaker 2:you know pieces of this opening ceremony act. How did it come across to you? Uh, that's kind of a loaded question, but, um, artistic expression, I guess. But also, like you said, it's kind of pushing the idea that you know everyone's accepted for who they are and it you know. It also kind of implies that, since it's using the last supper, that you know everyone's accepted for who they are and you know. It also kind of implies that, since it's using the Last Supper, that you know, oh, jesus is okay with all of this. So obviously I think that's bad. And to get back to one of Cody's questions about Elon Musk's statement, the word toothless to me means like violence, almost, and if he's saying that, then he an idiot, because jesus didn't show that at all but, I agree, like you said, or there's just been a bunch of public pushback on this already, which I think you know as christians that's what we should be doing right, so do you.
Speaker 1:But do you think like how offended should Christians be at this?
Speaker 2:I mean, as a Christian myself, I'm not offended by it at all. But one thing you did say is it can influence younger people who are watching it. So that's, I didn't take that into account. So that's kind of dangerous. So do you think?
Speaker 1:there is a part of us that we've become so accustomed to not being offended because we're above that. This is not our home.
Speaker 3:Earth is not our home.
Speaker 1:Heaven is our home and so therefore we are not offended by anything. People can say whatever they want, and so we don't react in disgust and say I can't be around that and we have been around in openly mocked situations, and is that bad? I think that's the question that I'm wrestling with, as I sort of take this on, Because I think you're right If nobody pushes back, like I think back in the day, whenever they had Gay Pride Day at Disney and then the Baptists boycotted it, I was like I kind of rolled my eyes at that. Right Now I'm kind of like Probably should have yeah right, like you know.
Speaker 1:Maybe that was the right move.
Speaker 2:What made you roll your eyes?
Speaker 1:Because I was like what kind of message is that sending?
Speaker 2:right.
Speaker 1:The reason I roll my eyes is like is it sends the message you don't want to be around gay people, and that's not it at all. It's just that you don't want your culture to be informed by a subset that, uh, stands for a sexuality that is completely against God's design. Right, I think that's where I would struggle with that, and and I and I think that I was like don't you want to be around gay people so that you could influence them for Christ? However, if you never get around to the influencing for Jesus part because you I don't know, you're not bold with your faith, then maybe boycotting is the best thing you do. The problem with that is it sends a message if you're not wanted.
Speaker 2:Well, how do you influence your faith in this specific scenario?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's why it's a huge question. I think there is a. So whenever homosexuality was let's just call it gay marriage, gay marriage was not legal. When it was illegal, it was way easier to kind of show a person like hey, this is clearly here's where the morality of government lines up with the morality of Christians. Clearly this is a universal thing. Okay, then when that shifted, now it became the Christians are going against the grain on stuff and to some extent that's good right, because we're showing a morality that's unique and for God and his purposes and his design. But it does take away a sense of a conviction of sin that you get just naturally.
Speaker 1:I think sometimes people in this Dionysus, because the God of wine festivals insanity, literally. If you're the God of wine festivals, insanity what? Literally? If you're the God of insanity, you're the God of whatever I think is right, is right, there is no wrong, and I think that's you know. Can I give a new definition of insanity? It's like you know the classic was it Einstein? You know, you keep doing the same thing over and over again, expecting. Keep doing the same thing over and over again, expect a different result. That's insanity. That's not insanity. But I think, since we're making up insanity definitions, I'd say trying to make something, calling something one thing, like calling a man a woman, is insanity, like that's where you, and then making that normal for everybody. I feel like we're living in the age of the emperor has no clothes, that's legit.
Speaker 3:And then, when it really gets worse, it's like, yes, men can have babies.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:And you're like I'm so sorry, do what.
Speaker 2:Right, I've never heard that Like they can physically have babies.
Speaker 3:Oh, that's a big deal. That side fights for it. It's like, yeah, men can have babies. For was like, yeah, men can have babies, and you're like that doesn't, that doesn't make sense. Like there's, there's somebody in congress or somewhere the other day testifying and was like, yeah, in there, like you really believe men can have babies right, so you get a uterus transplant.
Speaker 2:The only time I've seen that is that arnold schwarzenegger movie where he twins.
Speaker 3:No, not twins uh, what was it called? Yes, I know what you're talking about where he carried. Yeah, that was. That was great and that's funny. That was humor. Yeah, it was like a joke. Now it's to the point where no, this is a real deal, it's just awkwardly weird.
Speaker 2:I mean, yeah, there's no evidence of it.
Speaker 3:So why don't they just show? Okay, show me. Therefore you can have a baby.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay, right, interesting it is.
Speaker 3:It's weird. So I think again, for the longest time we've been like oh, okay, yeah, that is crazy to us, but to them that's like truth. They're like no, we really believe this, this is a real deal.
Speaker 1:And we just sit back and we're like y'all are just crazy, but in their heads they're like this is real right, and I think that's that's why that's why we and we don't speak up, therefore but this, to me, is why this, this opening ceremony, was so I would call it perfect, but kind of perfect. And the reason why I think it was perfect is because it showed the absolute insanity by worshiping the god. Like putting the god of insanity on a pedestal on top of jesus, literally um. It shows how far we have drifted from the truth. Like france used to be like catholic central, like that was. Like you know, when you think france, you think catholics, like that's why I think louis, louisiana, they have some French Creole thing going on down there and they're Catholic, quebec Catholic. And so to look at it now and sort of like going what is happening and I think this is where we are living in the age of the emperor has no clothes. It's the. What is insane is normal, and what is normal is insane.
Speaker 1:And that you know this is straight. I feel like just revelations of not revelation, but like a Romans one, you've exchanged the glory of God for a lie and then are starting to worship created things and then the perverseness is judgment on humanity because of, like, what you're seeing was not what God intended. So I like kind of where you're going initially, not what god intended. So, so so to the I like kind of where you're going initially is like it doesn't offend you. So tell me what you mean by that, because I think when I hear it doesn't offend me, I'm like this, okay, it's kind of like this if someone started mocking my wife or cat calling my wife, shouldn't I get offended by that?
Speaker 2:uh, yeah, I'd say you should be offended in that example okay.
Speaker 1:So what's the difference then between someone mocking your wife and mocking god?
Speaker 2:and maybe that's maybe I'm just seeing the silver lining here, but this has put christianity in the forefront right 100%.
Speaker 1:That's why I love that, because we're talking about Jesus and we're using. The whole world saw Jesus Now, granted not the way we portray him, but we're talking about Jesus through that lens.
Speaker 2:Well, it's just showing the blowback too right? That's the part.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I feel like how could we have gotten to a point as a global culture let's call it global culture where mocking jesus is seen as like a good thing?
Speaker 1:So I think it starts with mocking, or I feel like this is where the not that we need to go, we're gonna have a holocaust against christians. But in the 20s and 30s, with the jews in germany, you would. You would cartoon the jews. They were big, rich people that were, you know, hoarding money, and they were like plot. You know that's what all the, all the newspapers would cartoon jews to be like that, and what I think we're seeing is you're cartooning christians be like that, which I'm sure the left has cartooned trump to be the worst person in the world, which is why then people want to shoot him. So I do think there is a responsibility as Christians to protect the greater flock of Christians as a whole, especially kids. All that, to speak out against it in some form or fashion. I think the hard part is how do we say that? The hard part is how do we say that? Because last night, at my men's group.
Speaker 1:You know Kaler, who used to identify I love saying used to identify but he used to identify as a gay person and then a gay Christian, and now he doesn't identify as gay at all. He said when he saw that Olympics his heart broke for them because he said that's who I used to be. Yeah, and boy, that shut us all up because I think we were kind of like, you know, making fun of it a little bit. And then all of a sudden he goes that I I know you guys are angry about that, but that's who I was and so my heart breaks for them in their sin. And I was like only kaylor could say that and it made an impact and everyone was like, oh yeah let's pray for them like that was the, that was like we only.
Speaker 1:Kaler could say that and it made an impact and everyone was like, oh yeah, let's pray for them. That was like we all repented right there. We prayed for all the people involved and sort of like globally, because that's who Kaler was and he has repented and is now wanting to live for Jesus. That was a wild perspective. So Jordan from your perspective, like talk to me then. Do you see it from that way or are you still kind of like, ah, it's whatever.
Speaker 2:I mean. So my perspective on the people in general is I mean, I'm trying to see it from their viewpoint right, they're nonbelievers stuck in their sin, if you will. So why? They probably don't see it as any sort of offensiveness, like even for us. Like you know, some shows have, you know, portrayed muhammad and you know it's, it's comedy. I don't know if you found, did you find that funny?
Speaker 1:I haven't seen one where muhammad's portrayed in a funny way but even then I would, I would be careful, well, well, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, you see that as common South Park.
Speaker 1:Which one South Park South Park? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:South Park. That's funny, yeah. So how is that different here? Because you're mocking the Islamic people at that point, right, sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I still think that would be, I would be treading, I would be treading. I don't think the goal I think so. I don't know. As a Christian I'd have my goal to mock openly someone's faith system, because I think that would sort of build up walls and again, I'm not trying to be like hands across America on this but at the same time I want to offend people at the right spot. Now to your point. They don't know. I think they were trying to offend Christians. I think they were trying to stick it to them. I think someone was like they probably started off with Dionysus, the Greek god of merrymaking, wine and insanity, and like what's the most insane thing you could think of? And you go oh, what about this?
Speaker 1:You put the Last Supper and you make the God Dionysus the Last Supper for Jesus and you make Jesus a woman with a putting her, you know, doing the little heart thing that Jesus, I mean, that's that would be funny. But if, from that perspective, to say your Jesus is not real, and again, so I guess this goes back to, is it? I feel like there's a part of which we don't get offended. When someone's unintentionally trying to, they're just being themselves and they're cussing all over the place.
Speaker 2:Right, so you saw this as malicious, a malicious attack.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think they're intentionally trying to mock Christians, and I don't think they. I don't know if they start off that way, but when they put the Last Supper team out there and then had Dionysus come down on a big plate, to me that's like, okay, come on. And then for them to be like, oh, if you were offended, I didn't even see it that way. At least own it. I guess that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:Own the fact that you were trying to stick it to christians oh, just own it and then we can go okay, now we can have a war of words, and you know, I think that's totally fine well, I think, how do you, how do you deny it?
Speaker 3:they're saying that it's nothing. All allusions to the last supper were purely coincidental they're like oh, there was actually 14 people on this one right, you know completely different yeah they're like no, there wasn't there, it wasn't the same, like they wasn't even facing the same direction right they were like yeah, yeah, literally in different parts of it.
Speaker 1:if you look at the like, the contrast, like in the last supper, they're facing this way like I'm faith, but in the um, in the video, they're facing this way. I mean, it's like that. Those are the things that I think they just messed it up because they look we're looking at a mirror or something. I feel like that's where it's a struggle. Is it's so clear that they were intentionally mocking Christianity? But again, I think that's fine. I think the question I'm really—and this is the one I'm really wrestling through.
Speaker 1:I think in the past, when somebody would say something stupid about Christianity, I would just blow it off. I don't think I would be, to your point, overly offended, and I think that may have been a mistake, because I'm not revealing the disgust that God might have toward that thought. And I think this is where, back in the day, you used to call this being winsome. So you're not offended by it, you're above it all, you're just. You know it doesn't, nothing affects you, and that was really awesome. However, I think we're entering to a stage where Christianity is now the no longer the majority, and so you're not being winsome, you're now being you're.
Speaker 2:Silent.
Speaker 1:Silent. Yes, that's where it's a problem, because it's not the pervasive culture majority to think that a man dressing up as a woman is wrong. Now you're in a culture where that is celebrating a person's true identity. Is this woman pretending to be Jesus? Or, uh, this man dressed as a woman pretending to be a disciple? You're like it's. It's that's the part where that now is the norm, and if you don't get on board with that, you are a part of the problem. And so now, not standing up against that makes you just sort of like a silent, complicit person, and that's where I feel like over the past 20 years, you've seen the shift Really.
Speaker 1:Since the 90s, at the height of the moral majority type time when Newt Gingrich balanced the budget with Bill Clinton, you saw a shift in things where it went to, with George Bush being president and then Barack Obama, that huge swing to the left where Christianity became a target. And then, when we didn't say anything and we weren't offended by anything and people who do that are small-minded that became a problem. And I think that's how I mean, that's how you win the war of culture and influence is you make people feel stupid for being against something so open and loving, which is why we're watching so many Christians abandon their faith and, granted, I don't know if they're really Christians in the first place, but they're abandoning traditional God's design, uh, sex and marriage, that whole thing. Because, uh, it has been seen as such a pejorative in the culture to be that way. You're like your automatic. Your life is a polemic if you stand for, uh, traditional marriage. So that's kind of where I'm seeing that go right.
Speaker 2:So, like I said there was, there has already been pushback on this yeah um, you say not to remain silent, but like what does that look like? Do I need to go blast social media every time something gay is portrayed in the media?
Speaker 1:or I don't know. I I think that's maybe, but I mean how? How do you influence culture? I think that's maybe, but I mean, how do you influence culture? I think that becomes the ultimate question, and maybe it's like so one of the ways that I'm watching the progressive churches. When I say progressive, like gay-affirming churches, they would say something to the effect of if you are offended by the LGBTQgbtqia portrayal the last supper, well then you should be more offended by the fact that christians are bashing gays all over the world like that's the that's the verbal um judo that's going on to make you feel bad for being a uh, heterosexual christian who is trying to follow jesus.
Speaker 1:Like you should feel bad for that, that you're offended by that and you shouldn't be, and so trying to separate the offense from you, which is like it's like that's how you get a family to get a divorce. You shouldn't be offended that your wife is being um pursued by another man like that. That's essentially what we're saying is okay. Does that make sense? I?
Speaker 3:I know that might be. That's a weird like. Like like people defending where it's like. Christians say okay, I hear all of you out there like posting and all these things, but when's the last time that you've read your Bible or when's the last time you've posted a verse on your page? Right, you're in uproar right now, but what does your own personal life look like?
Speaker 1:Right, and so I think no, this is good. I think what happens, and this is just our I you know I can't speak for every church or every christian community, but, um, for the most part, I think christians don't read their bible, they're not into god's word and they're not being changed, and so, therefore, what does Christianity offer me Meaning? If I'm a lost person, seeing you offended, affected, it just seems like you have something to be angry about. The same way that you get upset that your football team loses, you get upset that your religion lost on TV because they got portrayed in a negative way.
Speaker 1:I think that's how we're coming off, and I think this is where one of the things that just this actually preview for the sermon this Sunday is like we don't glory in Jesus. There's a tendency for us to glory in arguing, and I think this is why I'm bringing it, because I feel like I should say something, but I don't know how to do it in a way that honors God and it doesn't make me come off like I'm really upset at you. I love these people that are so broken that they don't understand the wrath they're incurring from God, because they are openly putting God to shame, and we know God will not be mocked. He is never going to let that just whatever, like every careless word that you say you'll be judged for, and so I think this is where it's like.
Speaker 3:I think that's where.
Speaker 1:I think Candice, oh man.
Speaker 3:Full house.
Speaker 1:Full house girl, her brother's Candice Cameron whatever her married name is, candice was like I just feel sad for these people, right? And then she got well, don't you feel mad? She's like I feel mad that my savior is mocked, but the expression that I'm feeling more is sad for these people and I was like, wow, that was a Kaler sort of response which I really appreciated.
Speaker 3:I think growing like, growing up and especially getting older and stuff it was we were taught love the person, hate the sin, yeah, so if we're trying to get people here by bashing in into christianity in the church, by bashing and going hard and telling them that they're just worthless pieces of whatever, and how could you do that? Where's that imitation and this is a lot of people are saying this too where's that imitation? Where's that love? Right, like where you a lot of people are saying this too. Where's that invitation? Where's that love? Like where? You know? It's kind of like the controversial Superbowl commercial of uh, what was the Jesus commercial? Uh, he gets us, he gets us. You know, it's just like whoa, whoa, timeout.
Speaker 1:Well, it's so weird, isn't it wild, that, over and over again, jesus is at the center Every time. Now, okay, here's another place. I'm not recommending this movie, but guess who is Marvel H Christ Deadpool? So, like Deadpool in his movie says, I am the Marvel Jesus, you should call me Marvel H Christ. Now, I don't know where Ryan Reynolds stands with Jesus, but I'm guaranteeing you it's not close, but for some reason, he chose to make Deadpool the antihero that mocks all superhero movies. The way that he's going to do it is he is going to call himself Marvel Jesus. Now, why? Why is that? How does it, over and over again, jesus get right to the center of you can't escape. And how does Jesus become a four-letter word, like whenever someone says something in anger, it's usually a JC kind, kind of like.
Speaker 1:That's their expression of anger yep but, but how did? Why? Because that name has power.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's good, and it's one of those deals where you can look at this as, no matter what, guess who we're talking about. Guess who we're talking about. Guess we're talking about where it's. You look at it as he makes all things work together for his good. He does, and you're sitting here. How do you know that somebody that did watch that on tv didn't go? Wow, that is sad. Yeah, and enough is enough, right, you know?
Speaker 2:and that's kind of my point too right like, if still any exposure is good exposure, right, right, god uses this.
Speaker 3:So that's all. Hey, if it was exposure for me, I'll take it. Well, that's why I'm not a fan. Put my name out there, right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I think there's a line there, though, that I'm trying to be really careful of, because if I'm not offended by it, then I'm inviting someone to do that more, and that is incurring more wrath upon them.
Speaker 1:However, if, in love, I say I don't think you know what you're doing and I don't think you understand the wrath you're incurring, that this is not just a vague idea that you're like kind of laughing at. It's the savior of the world, and maybe you haven't. You have less revelation, and so therefore, I understand that you don't understand what your words mean, but I'm going to tell you what your words mean, with the hopes that you might repent and then therefore come to Christ. Now I would say that in a one-on-one conversation, but when we don't have one-on-one opportunities, how do we like? I think this is where, and maybe you have to explain that whole thing, and maybe your social media post goes something like this hey, I know that you thought that was funny and it reflection of your non-understanding, misunderstanding, intentional mockering of people whose faith and life revolve around him is a very dangerous place for you to be in and I'm praying for your soul to be saved. That comes off a little bit condescending, but I think it should, because you're correcting someone's sinful thinking right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree, I mean my thing I'm trying to think through is how do you reach the most people in saying that right, like my idea, just maybe make a wells branch church post about that. I don't know if you have an idea of how to reach.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this is where you know who the best that this is holland greg from ecc. He, he, he is very great at his social media posts on these kind of things. But yeah, I think that might media posts on these kind of things. But yeah, I think that might be the direction we kind of need to go on some of these things To be. This is where I need more creative. It takes me forever to think of something.
Speaker 3:Sure.
Speaker 1:And I sit there and I'll try and craft a post and craft a post to make it right, and then I sit there and go crud. I'm not going to say anything.
Speaker 3:Because it comes off wrong. I'm like, am I passive?
Speaker 1:aggressive, or am I too too aggressive? Am I telling you that you're just? Yeah, I think that's my problem, and maybe my problem should be I need to say something as opposed to nothing. But, um, what I don't want to be is an, is more noise, uh, but what I do want is to have, when people kind of come across, that is to reflect on. Do I understand the depths of God's love and the way that I'm mocking? It is like what they were wanting to say is free expression of love. Well, the greatest expression of love is Jesus dying on the cross, and when you make fun of that, you're making fun of the absolute essence of love, the highest form of love, your benefit at my expense. And maybe what you really are saying is I don't want that love, I want selfish, my benefit at your expense, and that is what the Olympics showed my benefit at your expense. And I think that's the problem with the overall arching world view of life.
Speaker 2:So, assuming they have malicious intent with this ceremony um, I forgot where I was going with that one do they need to apologize or something I don't know? No, I mean, they just seem to think I don't know how to best say this like would you say they hate christians the oh.
Speaker 3:So somebody sent me this a while ago and it was a. Uh, the creative director of the thing of the opening olympics was trying to make fun of christians. And come to find out, uh, let's see 24 paris olympics with all of it. Satanic macy, macy, like all the masonic and lbg imagery. The guy's jewish right but they were talking about uh. There's only one religion which manages to directly attack christ and promote non-traditional values and gender orientations. Is it talmudic judaism?
Speaker 1:yeah, that's the right way. Is that? Is that right?
Speaker 3:yeah, is what they were talking about. The olympic ceremony in paris was not uplifting french any any other other cultures.
Speaker 1:It was promoting a different tradition right yeah and I think their whole thing was liberty, right? Oh so when you think about the bastille, I think they're almost going back to that which. When I think about the bastille and guillotines and off with their heads. That was a failed revolution. Sure they wanted to get rid of the bourgeoisie. They wanted to make sure everybody that had any money died and the people be lifted up, and it did nothing but create another ruling class of people. And so the and and that was problematic, and it was just bloodshed after bloodshed for no purpose, and I think that's the god of insanity that they're they're worshiping anyway.
Speaker 3:I I just, it's all interesting and it's where people defend, like what's the olympics? And they're doing the greek things because it started in greece and they're trying to tie in paris style and pair. And it's france, it's, it's the modeling capital of the world and it's all these things are like, oh, it's fashion, it's all these things, what did you expect?
Speaker 1:and we're like I don't know not that decency, I just like call them in like, because I'm listen, I I understand they're not going to be christian. Sure, like gay people doing stuff I would.
Speaker 3:I wouldn't but where's your morale like? Where's your morals right, like your kids?
Speaker 1:and maybe that's what they're saying, and this is why this becomes. They have drag shows in libraries for the purpose of grooming children. To think that men dressing up as women and not just like any women, like stripper women, men dressing up as stripper women for provocative sexual enticement is what children should be exposed to Generally. 20 years ago for sure, maybe 10 years ago we would have called that grooming. Now we're calling that just a way to rear your children. And if you don't think like this, then you are a bigot. And I think that's where, again, this gets back to why I think it's important for us to speak up, speak out. Again, this gets back to why I think it's important for us to speak up, speak out. And to Elon Musk's point, christianity has become toothless and again, I don't know if that was— I don't feel like it means we're not going out and fighting.
Speaker 3:I feel like it's just—.
Speaker 1:Burn the place down.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I feel like it's honestly speaking up for yourself.
Speaker 2:So is he a Christian.
Speaker 3:That's an even better thing. I don't even know his background, but Is he a Christian? That's an even better thing. I don't even know his background, but for someone like that to speak up and be like, hey, that's pretty ridiculous, to be doing something like that, it's kind of cool.
Speaker 2:With the platform he has right, like if he were a Christian. Why wouldn't he go more in depth and just saying, hey, we're toothless.
Speaker 1:He didn't say we. He just said Christians have become toothless. And I think what he I you know it's elon musk, so he's always trying to provoke stuff and what I think elon musk was doing in that moment was trying to get a rise out of christians to speak up for themselves, because, you know, it's not like elon musk was is mr conservative? He well, you know, he started his business in california and I don't think he moved.
Speaker 3:I think the left became so left that he was like oh my gosh, this is out, is out of control. I'm a conservative.
Speaker 1:Now, how did this happen? Right, and I don't think he has a religion per se. But then when he realized who was on his team, he looked around and goes oh, it looks like the Christians are the ones that are on my team. Shoot, all right, I'll hitch up my pony here. I don't think he had a. I think the reason he moved more right is because the left went so far left. I mean he looks like he's super conservative, but in reality I don't think he's really that conservative.
Speaker 3:Well, why did he buy Twitter? What was the reason for that? Because they were censoring and they were not letting people actually have free speech, so the left could do whatever they wanted, say whatever they wanted, and when the right tried, it was censored, it was cut. So why are we not equal? We're equal playing field here. Right, right, right. And so he's like hey, this has to be open for everybody, all of it needs to be put out there. So I think that was also a push for him as well was like hey, y'all aren't playing fair ball here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, always, he can pick whoever he wants. He can pick the richest person in the entire world to effectively go to battle for Christians, even if he's not a believer, aka Nebuchadnezzar. I mean, it's not like unheard of, I do think when you start working for Jesus though it'd be really it's an added bonus to get saved. So I'm hoping that Elon does get saved, but he clearly has been speaking out for Christians, which is sort of wild to think about. Anyway, yeah, so to the point of this whole thing, I don't know if we actually landed on any conclusions other than, clearly.
Speaker 1:I know that the French media and the left would want you to think that that was not intended to mock Christianity, but it was. And what's also funny is Celine like performed for the first time in like I don't know, feel like 20 years or something crazy, a long time because she has yeah, she got the stiff person I watched like a uh video the other day about her and pretty much selling her soul to the devil, quote, unquote, and all this whole thing before this even came out.
Speaker 3:Oh, yeah, I'll have to find. Yeah, we'll have to look it up and find it later because it's a whole ordeal and that after she did all these things, like she got hit with some rare throat type of disease. It was pretty interesting. I was like, oh, that's pretty cool wow, all right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so sell her soul to the devil is the thing. Yeah, oh, wow, she did. Yeah, she's launching a Luciferian children's clothing line. Yeah, okay, that's false, never mind.
Speaker 3:That was there was some yeah, that was one and there was a couple other things in there and I just watched it before the opening ceremonies and then that all happened. I was like, oh man, I don't look too much. It is another thing that when stuff gets posted and put out there, people are so quick to immediately just repost it and type it out.
Speaker 3:I have to go and do research on I have to look it up I've got to go to a few different places, see what people are saying, looking into a few different things, and be like okay, yeah, that's legit or that's not. You know, somebody had posted a video of a bunch of people in paris with like and singing and they were like oh, christians gathered, thousands of Christians gathered. After that happened in Paris to worship God. Well, that was like six months ago or something a year ago. The video so it's like why are you even put that out there? Stuff like that.
Speaker 1:It's kind of silly so it's weird how.
Speaker 3:that's why I'm like a firm believer of hey, let's dive deep, look into it, figure it out first, and then just don't jump to conclusions so fast, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what I thought was interesting, there were several posts that were kind of first one was like can you believe this Last Supper? And then people say that wasn't the Last Supper, that was just dionysus. Then I then I watched it and I looked it up and I was like nope, definitely the last supper, definitely, uh, the greek god, dionysus, was involved with it, but it was him taking over jesus. Um, and granted, jesus, in this case, was a woman. Uh, it's just a sort of wow, all right.
Speaker 3:So did you see the actual picture they were talking about?
Speaker 1:The Last Supper one. No the naked dude the blue man.
Speaker 3:It's the Feast of the Gods, yeah. It's an actual painting and it's the one where they're saying that this is what it was actually about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it looks nothing Right.
Speaker 3:I had an idea.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it doesn't look anything like it. It looks way more like the last supper. Yeah, I'm looking at the picture now yeah and I'm like, yeah, come on, this is definitely a the last supper is the thing, not that one. They a little yeah, they did do a little combo situation.
Speaker 3:Right, and that's where people, when they're defending it, that's where it's like, ok, we're going to that.
Speaker 1:Right, but no Right, it's it. That's the part the problem is, it's it.
Speaker 3:You're clearly know what you're doing when you have the imagery of Jesus with the heart, with the heart with the crown, with all the things, and then dionysus coming down as the um, you know the yeah, yeah, clearly it's kind of and it's out there where they're like you know where they're actually trying to mock it. So it is what it is yeah, I mean I, yeah.
Speaker 1:that's where I'm like I I've seen too much to go on. After looking at all the different pictures and paintings, it's just too similar and I think they may have started out with.
Speaker 3:Like we said Right, but I think they're like, oh, this could be funny.
Speaker 1:And then they didn't. You know, it really wasn't funny to people, yeah, and they just gave themselves, like, the ability to deny it by saying no, look, there's the blue dude right here. Anyway, okay.
Speaker 3:Yeah, love people, hate the sin.
Speaker 1:There you go, all right and make some conservative posts that make people think, and let me know when you do, because you're probably way better than I am. All right, so any other final thoughts there, jordan.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so as a same-sex attracted person myself, I'm kind of trying to put myself in the shoes of these people who, let's assume, are being malicious. Okay, which makes me think. I mean, christians are usually associated with the ones, like you said, who bash the gays the most, and all of that, right. So I assume this is some sort of attempt by them to bash us back.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but yeah, I just I have not had the experience in the church at least not much of people hating me for my sin or I guess I wouldn't call it sin to be gay. To be clear, acting on it is sin. So I can understand their perspective to a certain degree. And I mean things in the Christian culture have affected me as well. You know, like a typical saying, if someone thinks something is stupid, you know they'll say that's gay, right, stuff like that. You know, and I assume't you know think of what that could actually do or affect certain people, especially kids, um, but just their experience the most seems to have been, you know, they're seeing us all as hateful, right, um, and kind of, you know, sticking our nose up like we're better than you, like you were saying. I think a good way to combat this maybe is to show relatability to a certain degree, in the sense that, hey, we're all sinners, we're not better than you show. Yeah, we all have sinful desires.
Speaker 1:All of us do, and I think you know there are times when I want to act out in rage or anger. There are times where I and that's a sinful desire that I have to put at the feet of Jesus Discipline my children. I could discipline out of anger, I could discipline in love. You know there's no matter what. The desire of darkness is always bad. But I think what happens is we, that we, we, we. I think if you start treating like someone's sinful desires as worse than another's, then that's where that becomes problematic and I think that's where jesus is wanting us to kind of really get to the heart of loving people, because you know, coveting your neighbor's wife is a sinful desire and we should not be promoting that and we shouldn't say it's okay to like, hey, it's okay that you want to covet your neighbor's wife, but you can't help it.
Speaker 1:No, we say no, we are going to repent from that and repent from that, and repent from that, over and over again I think that's the beauty of this is my heart for these people is I want them to repent from their sinful desires, and then their sinful desires become sinful actions, and then that's the, the ultimate struggle that I think we're battling here, um, in the, in the culture, wars of, of, of you know, I guess globally, if we're talking in Paris.
Speaker 2:So I think, like our baptism structure can do it well, like what was your life like before Christ? Right, you can establish a sense of relatability and I think that might make them more open. Yeah, but you know. And then the other portion of that is you know what has your life been like after Christ? And that's where you get to say all of that is you know what has your life been like after Christ.
Speaker 2:And that's where you get to say all of the blessings, all of the new experiences you've had, that you know kind of magnified Jesus instead of I don't know like.
Speaker 3:I don't know in the Bible.
Speaker 1:It's all just like hate gays, you know you guys suck all this stuff, but that seems to be the perception and that needs to be dispelled. You're right on. This is where I love what you just said and it just makes me want to jump on it. 1 Corinthians 6-9,. Do you not know? The unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God. Do not be deceived. Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. You'd say this exact thing, of that entire thing.
Speaker 1:And then 1 Corinthians 6.11,. And such were some of you. And there, but for the grace of God, go I. But such were some of you. You used to be all those things, all the things that will not inherit the kingdom of God. You were those things, but now you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. And so, man, I really love that. I mean you could summarize your entire thought, I think, with those three verses.
Speaker 2:And it really depends on the context too. Right, like it said you know I've struggled with drinking Like. That verse could very much sound like okay, I'm screwed, then I'm not going to inherit the kingdom of God. It just seems like the difference is the repentance aspect of it.
Speaker 1:I think that's where you say I don't want to be a drunkard, god help me. And that is like a repentant. Now nothing may have changed yet. Right Like you still, you're going to have desires that you're going to have to constantly submit to Jesus. On drinking, I'm not going to fill my body with alcohol, even though I desire to feel numb. I desire the buzz, I desire the party I don't know. I think that's where you could go with that. And then God's saying no, desire me. And I think that's the beauty of what you're really, really getting at the heart of. I think sometimes people just hear in those verses homosexuality. But it's thieves, greedy people, it's all of the above.
Speaker 1:Drunkards, revilers, swindlers it's kind of wild how many different types of people in here all with wrong desires, the sexual immoral idolaters, adulterers, men who practice homosexuality I just thought that that was sort of wild. So that's the beauty of the gospel, and I love the Corinthian church, which is from Greece, so they totally lived up to this party. Like you know, their love feast, where they were supposed to be celebrating Jesus' death, burial and resurrection, turned into debaucherous parties where they were essentially worshiping Bacchus or Dionysius. That's where it's sort of a wild disorder to think about. Yeah, all right. Hey, thanks for watching. If you got any questions, you can text us at 737-231-0605.
Speaker 1:We'd love to hear from you as we really talk faith, culture and everything in between. We are hoping that you, if you are watching this and you're from the LGBTQIA community, we would love to talk with you, have communication with you and love you and call you to repent and ask that God would just invite you into his family, because what is going on in your heart is something that's really special, and so I want you to, as you're hearing this, not to feel like there's a whole lot of judgment, because such were some of us, but we were washed, sanctified and we've been given over to Christ. We're so excited about that. So, from our house to yours, have an awesome week of worship.