Pastor Plek's Podcast
Pastor Plek's Podcast
Experiencing God's Glory
311: Pastor Plek is back with a sermon recap with guest Jordan Smith. Is it okay to glory in anything other than God? Jordan and Pastor Plek tackle this question and more on this episode. Tune in to hear it all!
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I'm your host, pastor Flex. So glad all of you are joining us as we are recording live here in Austin, texas, and live on all our platforms. Glad to be here along with none other than Senor Jordan Smith. Welcome back, jordan Howdy.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 1:So, jordan, we're talking about Exodus 33 and really 34, and we're really looking at God's glory, like the request by Moses show me your glory. And one of the things we brought up is is it okay to glory in anything other than God? And, first off, I'd love to hear your opinion on that, and maybe you don't even know what glory in something means.
Speaker 2:I mean, I assume it means like find intense satisfaction in something.
Speaker 1:Man see, that's why we bring you on the show, you are not your average bear. There is some brain power working up there Somewhat, so it's like to find immense satisfaction in so, um, you know, this year is a hundred year anniversary of eric little winning the gold medal, uh, from the 1924 paris olympics and uh, in that olympics, remember I don't know if you remember that's the movie Chariots of Fire.
Speaker 2:Never seen it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because it came out in 81. Anyway, for those of us that have seen it, it brings back the memory of that and one of the lines from that movie that he says is like when I run I feel God's pleasure, like that was a guy that truly gloried in the gift that God had given him, and so that's a good thing. You know like you're supposed to glory in and enjoy, really, truly treasure the things that God has made. You just don't want to do that in excess, to a point where it goes above God, obviously, yeah, I mean that was going to be my answer to your original question, essentially, like I think you mentioned on Sunday, obviously.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean that was going to be my answer to your original question. Essentially, like I think you mentioned on Sunday, adrian, you glory in her, like that's fine, like a lot of people find glory in nature and appreciating that. I think I fall into that category. But it's all about maintaining the right perspective, right? Like you have to keep God first, and that can be difficult to do, and you can also, without even realizing it, slip into the idolatry territory on some things as well.
Speaker 1:Yep, Good, yeah, so I do feel like that is part of it and I think that that's so. Glorying is a good thing. The problem, I think, is we don't, and this would be something I would love to hear your perspective on. Do you know what it like when I say glory in God? Do you have like a concrete I don't know? Here's how I glory in God, Like that's what I do.
Speaker 2:I mean, I think I try to see God in all things in life, kind of just any daily activities. Like I said, nature is a big one for me. Yeah, why nature? Like what, what? Part of nature, I guess, specifically I mean, I like to hike a lot and things like that, but just seeing you know god created all of that and for me it's just, you know, fresh air is great and just yeah, being in that.
Speaker 1:Basically, yeah, all, yeah, I could definitely see that, I think, when you go. When I went, I was in the Rocky Mountains last summer and standing in the continental divide looking at both sides I'm in the clouds looking down. It's kind of freaky, it's kind of wild. That's glory in God's creation. And I mentioned, yeah, whenever Adrienne talks, she is just hilarious. You just never know what she's going to say and there's just a real joy in spending time with her, especially when she has a group of people and she's holding court. Uh, it's fun. So, yeah, I truly enjoy that aspect. Okay, that I love, I love that perspective.
Speaker 1:Now then let's kind of get to the place where, um, what we talked about on sunday is that you can sort of do that wrongly. I guess, uh, and obviously the um, the israelites, gloried in the wrong thing uh, sex, drugs and rock and roll at the base of the mountain, as they just, you know, made this covenant with god, all that you say we will do, and he's like, gives the 10 commandments and they break a lot of those commandments, uh, by worshiping the golden calf and having sex and, uh, doing stuff at the base of the mountain. So when I, when I read that or when I see that it's like God then is going to uh judge them uh, rightly so. And I got to ask this question, um, um, actually at men's group, like how, like it seems like god got really mad, and when it says that god is an all-forgiving god, he gets really furious and starts killing people and like, now, does that, does that, did you have a problem with that? Or are you like, does that make sense to you?
Speaker 2:I mean, yeah, like for me like even reading Job when I was kind of a new Christian I'm like wow, god's kind of.
Speaker 1:God's got a little bit of an interest in you. He needs to go to England. He needs to go to England. He needs to go to England. He needs to go to England.
Speaker 2:He needs to go to England. But you know, obviously Jesus is our way to forgiveness and all of that. So I mean it's still kind of hard to wrap my head around that Like in that text it says he sent a plague upon them. After that, whatever that means, like hopefully they realize that that was a consequence of sin, basically, I guess.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, so let's go down this way. Because here's the question that was brought up. Somebody asked aren't we all children of God? Like everyone's God's child? And people say that a lot, and I was like this is where I got to be like the spoiler. I'm like, no, you're not God's child, like that seemed like, at least without Jesus. And everyone was like, okay, okay, christians today, all Christians, are God's children.
Speaker 1:Yes, if you're outside the family of God, if you haven't accepted Christ, you are not God's child. But weren't they? Like you know, if you're a son of Adam? Well, no, because not all who are descended from Abraham, who's the son of Abraham, are of Abraham, that's of the promise. And we know that because Ishmael is not a child of God.
Speaker 1:Ishmael, although he gets blessed by God, is not part of the promise of God, which is sort of wild. I don't know if we're going to see Ishmael in heaven, but it, you know, because clearly they believed in God and I, but I don't know if they believe in the promise of God's offspring from Abraham, isaac, jacob, because they were always his descendants, were always at war. It wasn't like, oh, those are our brothers, we love them, you know anyway, so the one whenever God wipes out all the people of the earth. Remember that part uh in genesis, uh nine. You then have um god starting over with noah. Now did god wipe out every single person on the planet? I don't know. I think you know sometimes when he says all, it means every single person, and sometimes when it's all, it means pretty much everybody.
Speaker 2:So sometimes you know it's like when I mean, didn't the flood cover the whole earth?
Speaker 1:It did.
Speaker 2:You're telling me people just swam for 40 days or however long it was. I mean I always assumed it meant all except Noah's family.
Speaker 1:Right, so I mean, but you couldn't. So there's two ways to interpret it. One is it's interpreted as everybody, like every single person, but there's sometimes when all means Like the whole city was in an uproar. Well, was that every person Like? I'm probably sure there were some kids that were not in an uproar Like what does?
Speaker 1:that mean and I think that's where it's challenging I mean when it's like the entire city was devastated. Well, and I don't want to make anyone doubt the Bible, I'm just saying there's more than one way to interpret all. All could be in the figurative sense. All could be in the exact sense, either one is fine.
Speaker 2:I mean, I agree with you on that, but this one to me sounds pretty straightforward that everyone died except who was on that arc okay, fair enough, okay, and then let's go down that road.
Speaker 1:So you go down that road, then you start off with um noah, his family, and you got the three kids and you know, uh, ham is cursed, unfortunate for him, and uh, and then you've got, uh, the, all the descendants from them, all the descendants from them, all the people from them are descended from those three. Well, the promise then Abram is after those three. So Abram shows up and God says to Abram hey, I'm going to bless you and I'm going to make a covenant with you. To Abram hey, I'm going to bless you and I'm going to make a covenant with you. And that's specific, it's not like I'm making a covenant with everybody. So it's Noah to Abram. And so in that span of time because you've got a whole bunch of evil that comes up after that. It's sort of a wild deal. And so Abram comes, and then Abram's called to move to the land of Canaan. He eventually gets to Paddan Haran with his dad, terah, terah, like I'm parking it here, abram parks it there as well. As soon as his dad dies, he continues on.
Speaker 1:Okay, so God's promises stick with Abram and Sarah, specifically, and that's who God's promised to bless, and those are the children of God, children of the blessing. So that goes down to Moses. Moses then gets the covenant, which is conditional covenant. Abraham got an unconditional covenant, moses got the conditional one, and then Jesus then is the fulfillment of the Mosaic, davidic pretty much, and actually Abrahamic covenant as well, and then from there on you get the new covenant, and only those who have access to the new covenant are children of God, which then is offered to the whole world, regardless of bloodline. I know that's probably way too much than anybody was wanting, but that's where that comes from, and so that's why the question was aren't we all God's children? Well, no, not until God adopts you, and I think that part might be the part that's hard for people to wrap their head around which Romans 8 is really big on the adoption of God. Any thoughts there?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, that was a hard one for me to kind of swallow too, because there seems to be this conundrum of God has to call you, he has compassion and mercy, on whom he has mercy. And then he compares Moses to Pharaoh.
Speaker 1:Pharaoh and Moses saw the same set of plagues. They both saw 10 plagues. Pharaoh was intimately familiar with the 10th plague as his son died, his firstborn son died, and that would have been tragic right. And another question we got recently was like whose judgment was God's or which God of the pantheon, of Egyptian pantheon, was the 10th plague against? And it would be against all of them because death, they could not stop death. It was like predictive hey, if your gods are so great, stop this or let the people go and you don't have to suffer this. No, they dug in. Our gods are stronger, our gods are greater. I mean, it's not like they didn't believe in God, like at this point, they were not like there's no God. They saw all the plagues, one through nine, and the 10th one, firstborn son, and it happened.
Speaker 1:So Pharaoh sees that and he doesn't go. God, you're so great, he's like. I am so angry and I am more convinced than ever that my gods are better. You're just an unjust, evil God who got one over me and that is hard to wrap your head around. Is he's going down with his gods? As opposed to yield to the God of? I mean, he does yield in a sense where he lets the Israelites go but he doesn't worship.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because God, quote unquote, hardens his heart every single time.
Speaker 1:Exactly. Now, how do you harden somebody's heart? I think when people hear God hardened Pharaoh's heart, they usually think that Pharaoh was neutral, like he's just a Pharaoh. He's like the government. The government doesn't support any religion. No, no, he was like the man representative of the Egyptian pantheon. Moses was a representative of Yahweh, and so you had this competition. If you will competition, you had this battle of the spiritual cosmic order that was seen on earth, and he will not give up his alliance with his own gods. And I think that's where Yahweh comes in and says all right, I will show you my power. And that is how he hardens Pharaoh's heart, because the only way that he Sounds like a stretch to me. You think that's a stretch.
Speaker 2:It does.
Speaker 1:Why.
Speaker 2:I mean hardening someone's heart. To me sounds like an action.
Speaker 1:It is, it is an action. Revealing the miracles are what harden his heart.
Speaker 2:So you're saying he had the choice to accept one of those miracles meant Yahweh was the real one and only God.
Speaker 1:No, only when he, like you remember, when Moses meets with God, he says I know you by name and you know I've chosen you, and blah, blah, blah, like. That's God revealing himself specifically to Moses and giving him compassion and grace, not based on anything he's done, but because he chose him. However, what Moses deserved was death. What Moses deserved was what Pharaoh got, but because and this is where Would you say Pharaoh had a choice.
Speaker 1:He was a sinner, so his only choice was to sin, and so every revelation he got only made him sin harder, because with the more revelation is more judgment. Which is why, whenever Jesus doesn't do many miracles because few could believe, I don't think it's because he's like, oh, I ran out of power. It's because he's like, oh, crud, if I do a miracle here, they won't believe it and therefore the judgment will be worse for them.
Speaker 2:Okay, sounds good.
Speaker 1:So I think that's what's going on with the way that God hardened Pharaoh's heart was through the revelation of more miracles and of his power. But, just like someone who is like a diehard Democrat, they're watching Rachel Maddow and they pretty much agree with everything she says. And then whenever they listen to Ben Shapiro, they're like yep, see, that is completely wrong and everything Ben Shapiro would say would sort of like more deeply seed their view of their own view. And the same thing on the flip. If you're like a Fox News person and you see Rachel Maddow, you're going to be like oh, I am See, everything she's saying just validates my point. Only, I'm not saying it has to be political, it has to be supernatural. But with God it has to be a supernatural intervention where he has to choose you to unharden your heart.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, that's kind of my point. Pharaoh didn't have that, he couldn't have that at all.
Speaker 1:But, I guess my point is it's not that God is unjust. I think this is the part where Romans 9 says is God unjust? Because who can resist his will? That's the same question Romans 9 gets at back to you. You guys have heard um the starfish, the, the grandpa and the little kid walking along the beach and, uh, the little kid starts picking up the starfish and chucking in the water to save their life so they don't dry up. Have you ever heard that story?
Speaker 2:uh, sounds vaguely familiar okay so this is so.
Speaker 1:it's a grandpa and like an eight-year-old kid, they're walking along the beach. The little kid every time he sees a starfish, he picks it up, he chucks it into the water and the grandpa goes. You know why are you trying to save all the starfish? You can't save them all. And the little kid goes well, I can save this one. And he picks it up and he throws it in.
Speaker 1:All right, all of us were doomed to die because of our sin, because sin and the holiness of God cannot coexist, and so we are eternally doomed. But God, in his infinite grace and mercy, chooses to save some Now. Then the question goes back to well, why doesn't he save everybody? I mean, if he can, why doesn't he? And I don't know that answer. But then that's where Romans 9 goes.
Speaker 1:Does the clay say to the objects of his grace bears with great patience those that were made for destruction. In other words, it's not like he doesn't know who will be destroyed, destroyed. But the reality is God can't have creation and share his joy and share relationship with robots. It doesn't work like that. So he initially shares with Adam and Eve. They fall into sin, and so the rest of humanity is doomed, and so there is just this thing of sin. But because he is a just God, a loving God, he has to punish sin. But then he chooses those to whom he will reveal himself to, and I don't know why he does it like that, but that's why he does it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, go back to your starfish analogy, right? Yep, like from a human perspective. I'm looking at this kid. You know, I'll pick this starfish and throw it in. Oh, this starfish sucks, let's pass on that one. I mean, that's for me the way. I kind of sounds like a cop-out answer. But it's a human perspective. It does seem unfair to me, I assume it sounds unfair, yeah, but well, hey, let me finish.
Speaker 2:All right, fair enough, well, I just wanted to say, like I've had to accept, you know, if God is who he says, he is and he's in control and all of that, then there must be some purpose behind it, right, yeah, but I sure.
Speaker 1:And I think the problem is. I think the place where we struggle is like why doesn't God save everyone? And I think that's with our. If he can save everyone, he should save everyone. And I think that's the problem where we then get into the head of god and where romans 9 as gives a hypothetical. It's a hypothetical that paul presents. There is if what? Because he doesn't know what.
Speaker 1:If god wanting to show the riches of his mercy with his, or want to show the riches of his grace with his objects of his mercy, bears with great patience objects meant for destruction, like he can do that. But we can't say to him he is not just. It's like if you pay the bail on nine guilty persons and you don't pay the bail for the 10th, well, you'd say, wow, it's really generous with your nine that you paid for. Why didn't you pay for that other one? And whether it's because you didn't have enough money, whether you want to say like, hey, you wouldn't know what grace was unless I didn't pay for it, I don't know what it is. That's a great question and one will have to ask God.
Speaker 1:But clearly we don't have the authority to go to God and say that's not fair, Because what God would then say what's not fair is that anyone gets saved at all. Because what you deserve. Because if God is just God, he has to punish sin, which is what we talked about in Exodus 34, 7, where he forgives sin to the thousandth generation but punishes sin to the third and fourth generation, and those two things can't fit together in the same person, because that's a punishing person and a graceful person and who gets to choose which one it is. But in Jesus, that's where those two come together, where he on the cross bears the sin of those whom he would punish so that he is able to forgive the sin to the thousandth generation. I think that's the part that's difficult. I think it's a challenge, I think spiritually, for a lot of people to get there, because they're like it doesn't seem fair, because I think most people feel neutral.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, do you like? So there's those 10 prisoners, 9 get bail. Do you not see that as unfair at all? Like there's just a 10th one. To me and my human perspective that sounds let's go. But what if I?
Speaker 1:put it like I think 10 Adolf Hitlers like that 10th Adolf Hitler. It's more like 3 Adolf Hitlers get saved and 7 go to hell. So you look at it like you should be looking at it no-transcript Right, that's how I would look at it. I would look at it like what are you doing? Why would you let any Adolf Hitlers go? And I think that's the part where we don't understand the depth of our know history. Uh, then you know, we kind of go nuremberg trials, and I think that's where what I'm saying is we look at ourselves and we go we're not that bad. Like eternal hell, punishment for forever. That seems a little bit extreme. I'm not as bad as them, and that puts into a workspace mentality. And it is true, you might not be as bad as them and that puts into a workspace mentality. And it is true, you might not be as bad as someone else, but you are not living out God's design. There's malware in to use, since we're in a tech world.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm loving this. Keep going. Yeah, here we go Do you know anything about malware in your job. I work IT. Yes, I know what malware is.
Speaker 1:Tell me if I'm going off the reservation here. All right, so the malware is bad, right, so? So what do you do to fix malware?
Speaker 2:uh have an antivirus so the god.
Speaker 1:But what so? What happens if? Can you fully corrupt something in um software where it's unredeemable?
Speaker 2:I got I got a good analogy for you. Yeah sure you can do that, but you'll have to reformat the system which you can argue, that's Jesus and making us new and all that. So there's your analogy.
Speaker 1:Boom, see, it worked out. Yeah, so I think that's what happens, is Jesus gives you a new heart? Otherwise, if I don't judge that, or if I don't stop that malware, um, and make it repent, it's going to destroy even more, right, like? Eventually, it's going to corrupt the whole system, right? Okay, so I know I'm at some point the analogy is going to lose its function.
Speaker 2:I'm just waiting for the, the climax here, where you're going with it, basically so god, remember, god didn't just make robots, he made people.
Speaker 1:The people got malware and then it disrupted the entire creation. So, instead of throwing out the entire creation, he starts over once with noah and his family, all right, and says, hey, like, I'm gonna reveal myself to you. You, you know, you're godly people, you know, let's do righteous things, don't kill people. Everyone's like cool. Well, it turns out they still keep killing people. Tower of Babel and all bad things happen. And then God says like let's confuse their languages. And then spreads out everybody all over the planet.
Speaker 1:Still there's, but he still has a plan for, like how he wants to share a relationship because he's a God, he's the triune. God wants relationship with his creation, but how can he have it? Because they're so sinful and if he actually tries to have relationship with them, he will kill them. And so he dwells among them in the tabernacle, which doesn't work, because he's going to have to kill them again because they keep breaking the terms of the covenant, because he's a just God and he's fair and all that, and he can't just let sin go unpunished. He doesn't let sin go unpunished with all the other nations. He has a table of nations, he's like, and he wipes them all out, like he has set them up for Israel to be his hammer or to be the judgment of all these Canaanite nations, and he judged them, which also, in turn, israel also gets judged by another nation. So that's why God is ultimately in control, and so when there's that genocide that you see in Joshua, that is because they deserved it, which you're like. That seems crazy.
Speaker 2:Well, that's the whole point, right, right. I feel like from a human perspective that just seems unfair, but we don't really know what god's right, and I think because the only one outside, the only one that's truly just, is god.
Speaker 1:If he uses one unjust people to kill off another unjust people, then that's fair because he's just. You know what's? What object am I using to judge these people? Oh, this one. And he slaughters them and so they start all over. I think the problem we have is, like, why does God kill anything he created at all? Like, why does he have to judge it? And that's because he wanted a relationship with a creation and interact with them and interact with each other out of love. And they're not acting, loving malware. So then we either destroy the malware, which happens, or we convert the malware and have an antivirus. And so what? The whole point was that he wanted worshipers. He wanted people that would worship him, magnify him, because God is all about himself, he's all about his glory, and I think, for our perspective, that makes us feel weird, because if any one person is all about themself, we I think, for our perspective, that makes us feel weird, because if any one person is all about themselves, we're like, we don't like you.
Speaker 2:Right, I mean, I guess I see it as just a form of surrender. Like I'm never going to understand why that is. It sounds unfair to me. But surrendering that to God again and that's a way to glorify him, right, sure?
Speaker 1:But I do appreciate that you're, because I think you have the normal reaction to that. But my hope would be that you would say oh no, the only thing worth glorying in is God, and you were designed to glory in him, meaning he's all about himself and he designed you to be all about him. And so if he was about any other thing, then whatever that thing was would be ultimately God. And so I think what happens a lot of times people put man, they man-center it, and they put man at the center, and so man becomes the ultimate thing, and so then man becomes the ultimate thing. So therefore God could never send man to hell, because that's the ultimate thing, and so that makes man the ultimate God, and I think that's very problematic and we can't have that. We don't want that because we know that how we are is unjust, unfunctional humans, and we need God just because, even by our own standards, we fall short.
Speaker 2:I mean, yeah, that's kind of what I mean by surrendering, right, like I'm not going to know the answer, just I don't know how to best put it in words like sure, that's, that's my form of, you know, putting god above man, right, right yeah, I, I and I think that's that.
Speaker 1:That's good. I my hope wouldn't be like all right, you win. I don't want to Eeyore our way into it, but I understand like that, so you don't have a problem with just some people not being saved.
Speaker 2:That's never bothered you or anything.
Speaker 1:I mean, clearly, god's heart is for everyone to be saved, so therefore my heart should be that, which is why I share the gospel with as many people as possible. But I also know that God is sovereign, and then if he's sovereign and is in control, then he has something that's far greater. And so therefore, I'm about what he's about, and it's not that I'm not like, because God's clearly sad about it. Uh, he cause that's it's not. I want to say he's not getting what he wants. It's within his permissive will, but not within the moral. Yeah, this is where it gets tricky. It's not within the moral will, because sinners shouldn't go to hell. He reveals himself to save some so he can have a relationship with them, but the only way he can have a relationship with them is if he puts himself inside those people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I think we're kind of saying the same thing, but our personalities are so different.
Speaker 1:That's very true. I'm very a forward-thinking person and opportunities are always in the future. Let's talk about the future. Do you talk about the past?
Speaker 2:a lot. I used to. But you say Eeyore, I've been called that quite a few times. Fair enough, fair enough, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:All right, that's good, okay, so good, okay. So that's why I feel like glorying in God is the only thing that's going to ultimately provide joy. Now here is what God invites you and I think this is what's good is the relationship that Moses gets with God. I know you by name. I'm revealing to you my name and my goodness, and his goodness is really what happens at the cross, and so when we glory in God, I think this is the part where we meditate on his goodness, we are thankful for the life he has given us and we worship him and we walk through our day with him, and I think that's the part where, again, this isn't a drive-by guilting for everybody who's not having hour-long quiet times. What this is is, I feel like we glory in other stuff. We feel sad.
Speaker 1:The dopamine release that makes us come back to do another thing is usually answering an email, checking our social media, checking our stock portfolio, checking like getting another high score on the video, or progressing to another level or whatever video game world, or the next hookup, the next deal, the next whatever. I think that's where we usually go to to glory in which is manmade, flipping the order of creation, and that's why people get frustrated when God is not at the top and his judgment isn't best, because they've they've gone to other things. I think Christians do this. I think Christians when they don't have a God at the top His glory is my glory. Meaning, like, all I want is to see Him glorified. Then, ultimately, things that are created become. They get more power over you, and that's where you lose joy.
Speaker 2:I mean, that's just the human condition, though. Right Like David, you know man after God's own heart, but he kills his best friend to hook up with his wife, like that's just a part of life. I feel like right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, true, but okay, I don't know, it doesn't have to be right.
Speaker 2:Like at what point, yes, we're sinners. It has to be right. Like at what point, yes, we're sinners, it has to be. It's going to happen, right, well okay.
Speaker 1:Clearly it does happen, so I'm not going to deny that. But isn't there a part where, like somewhere along the line, david stopped glorying in who God was?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Is he gloried in. You know that's where he in. You know that's where he. You know he sits, stands, he's atop his palace. I'm king of all. I survey sees the hot chick down there. He's like, hey, who's that? And nobody goes. That's your wise wife, don't sleep where. They're like hey, can you go get her for me? All right. And they get her and bring her over and like she's just like, oh, the king wants to see me. The next thing, you know, she's pregnant.
Speaker 1:Like I don't know I fell Like.
Speaker 1:I think that's the problem that even Christians endure is we're still shackled by sinful bodies, but within hope in Jesus, the Holy Spirit, we can overcome and remember.
Speaker 1:That's why our battle isn't against flesh and blood, but against the spiritual forces of darkness, and that's why our prayer is God, keep me from temptation, lord, deliver me from evil is because we need that help, because there's a cosmic battle going on that God is ultimately in charge of and in control of, but I don't think we seek his help and we don't seek his freedom. That's where I'm kind of going with that. I mean, yeah, I agree with all that, yeah, so where do you think the struggle is for people, modern day people and let you know, we always come back to lgbtqia stuff because I feel like that's the topic du jour but when that comes up, where do people go? When you're up against a cultural moray which is you believe this, or we will make you, or you'll be blacklisted or blackballed or whatever, I mean, how do you as a Christian, especially with the background you have, how do you battle that personally? And then, glory in God.
Speaker 2:I mean I think it just goes back to what I said before of you know, I have those desires, same-sex desires but I believe God's better than that and I have to surrender that to Him. I believe God's better than that and I have to surrender that to him, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's again. Is there a place? And this isn't like the trick question of like gotcha, I'm genuinely asking Is there a place where you surrender that and it's joyful, or is it I surrender that and I'm choosing?
Speaker 2:joy. You know what I mean, do you? Yeah, again you go back to the eeyore part. That that's can be difficult for me, right, yeah?
Speaker 1:that's tough. It based on maybe background and family of origin, plus just nature nurture the whole thing yeah, all those great things all right. So the big thing that I I wrapped up with everybody is are you or how are you seeking god's glory? Like so for you when I say jordan, how are you seeking god's glory? How do you do that?
Speaker 2:I mean, that's a great question. I don't know if I'd know how to answer that off the top of my head.
Speaker 1:Well, that's good that you asked that then. So like I feel like if you don't know and we hang out a lot then I don't think anybody knows Like I feel like that's the part that gets challenging and I would say, seeking God's glory goes back to the way that God revealed himself to Moses. When he says to him which you know, it's just as wild the Lord passed before him and proclaimed the Lord, the Lord, a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness, keeping steadfast love for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, but who will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children and the children's children to the third and fourth generation. So you've got this love and justice motif. That sort of like comes together in Jesus and I think this is the part where, when you glory in him, you think of I am that bad but God is that good, and sort of like.
Speaker 1:In the same way that I would sit there and kind of like love to listen to Adrian sort of talk and it's just fun, hilarious. I think about wow, how good it is that God is. Wow, I can't believe how big the cross is and what that means to me and that's glorying in God. And I think that takes discipline to do, just like any discipline, like working out at the gym or whatever it takes the discipline of I'm choosing this thing and I'm going to go do this thing and I'm going to enjoy this thing and then eventually it becomes what you do, who you are right, yeah, I mean our minds have you know all the neuroplasticity and everything?
Speaker 2:I've worked on that a lot to combat my negative perspective on a lot of things. Or quote unquote realistic perspective, whatever you want to use on that.
Speaker 1:So how do you do that? So like, walk me through your how to, I guess, combat the negative worldview.
Speaker 2:Whenever I have those thoughts of you know, being in a relationship with a guy would be better than God. You know I'll try to repeat scripture, you know encouraging scriptures that I know that can kind of pull me back to God. But there's also ebbs and flows with that. Sometimes it's just rote and doesn't feel that way. But I think that again goes back to the discipline aspect. You're talking to do that even because the most important time to do that is when you're not feeling it right, right, I think it's like working out.
Speaker 1:I don't feel like working out on it. Today's a cheat day, like and or you know, with eating, today's a cheat day for eating, and then, all of a sudden, every day is a cheat day and then no day's a workout day, and then, all of a sudden, you have no relationship with God because you, it was a cheat day. And he understands, and I'll get back to it and he does, he does understand. He's the only thing it's like. The only person you're cheating is yourself, right, I think, when you, when you don't spend time with God, when you don't do the work of relationship, agreed, yeah, all right. So that's where we're going to land it on this particular podcast. Any other final thoughts on God's glory?
Speaker 2:It's awesome.
Speaker 1:It is awesome. Hey, thanks for watching and if you've got any questions, text us now 737-231-0605. We'll go to PastorPleckcom. We'll leave a message for us there. We'd love to hear from you. We talk faith, culture and everything between From our house to yours. Awesome, we love worship.