Pastor Plek's Podcast
Pastor Plek's Podcast
Transformative Journeys of Spiritual Growth
314: Pastor Plek welcomes Cody Sparks of the Cody Sparks Band and Liz Mitchell, the Deacon of Care at Wells Branch Community Church. Liz shares her unique responsibilities through the "five M's of ministry"—new moms, medical emergencies, meal trains, mass casualty events, and memorials, alongside the newly added moving ministry. They also break down the essential differences between the Deacon of Care and the Deacon of Compassion, focusing on the balance between project management and hands-on assistance in community support. The episode also explores the life-changing events that led a Texas country musician to reevaluate his life during the COVID-19 pandemic, including his wife's journey from a toxic relationship to new beginnings and a shared faith journey. Lastly, they dive deep into the transformative power of personal time with God and its impact on behavior and relationships. Cody and Liz reflect on their personal spiritual journeys, discussing how hope in Christ can help overcome fears and manage failure and anxiety. By examining the biblical story of Moses and sharing personal anecdotes, they uncover the profound changes brought about by faith during challenging times. Don’t miss this thoughtful exploration of ministry, social dynamics, and spiritual growth.
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And welcome back to Pastor Plec's podcast. I'm your host, pastor Plec, and joining me in studio is none other from the Cody Sparks band, senor Cody Sparks.
Speaker 2:One and only.
Speaker 1:And then also from Wells Branch Community Church, the deacon of care, liz Mitchell. Hello, liz, is this your first time on the show?
Speaker 3:No.
Speaker 1:How many times you've been on the show? Two, two, okay. Is this the second time? Yes, okay, all right, so we are very excited. Can you tell us what it is exactly you do around here at Wells Branch Community Church?
Speaker 1:All the things Well she does all of the things and that's something you should be excited about. If you don't know Liz Mitchell, you should know Liz Mitchell. So Liz the Deacon of Care I don't know if you guys know this. They have something called the five M's of ministry. You've got new moms, you've got medical emergencies, you've got meal trains, you've got mass casualty events, and then you've got memorials. You've got MASH casualty events and then you've got memorials. And then one other one we've just added recently to your title is moving.
Speaker 2:Getting men to move stuff.
Speaker 1:Men with trucks moving. So we kind of established your whole ministry with the letter M. It feels like a Sesame Street show, so talk to me about that aspect of being there when people are at a point of crisis.
Speaker 3:Well, as we were talking about earlier today, it's the first step in evangelism. It's bringing the love of God to people who are in need, meeting their needs in that moment of whatever it may be as far as like a life crisis or a life change, or something that they just need help with yeah, and so, um, how long you've been the deacon of care now many moons a long time.
Speaker 2:All right, somebody explain to me the difference between deacon of care and deacon of compassion you know that is a very, very question.
Speaker 1:You see, the deacon of care is really all about caring, whereas the compassion person so caring from the standpoint of project managing care. And then the compassion person is the boots on the ground taking said person from their house to a community group, from their house to church, from their house actually organizing the moving team to show up at the house.
Speaker 2:So the M in compassion is moving.
Speaker 1:Moving yeah.
Speaker 2:I just know A-Ron is moving everybody all the time.
Speaker 1:A-Ron is a big-time mover and he is a blessing, and so if you don't know Aaron, you need to know him. He is pretty amazing and so, yeah, I highly advocate for the care ministry, which has a deacon of care and the deacon of compassion. Okay, we're going to talk about what we got into with our sermon this past Sunday, and we talked about another M word method acting. Have you ever heard that term before, liz, before we talked about it? Yes, okay, who is the person that you knew that did method acting?
Speaker 3:I would say it was probably a teacher in high school.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you learned this in high school? Yes, were you a theater nerd.
Speaker 3:No, I was channel one. I was channel one, so that was like bring the news to the school. That was me, but I was more of like the video rendering and yeah, okay, fun, go behind the scenes, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh, wow, that's awesome. Oh, y'all like film Channel One yeah. We just watched Channel One.
Speaker 3:We filmed it. We didn't have any of that. Yeah, we filmed it and then they showed it.
Speaker 2:Like at every school in Texas.
Speaker 3:No, just our school.
Speaker 2:That's pretty awesome, though, well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, so Little Panther. So what we talked about with method acting was that you study the character and their history, you get to know them, the study of that person. Then you got to get into their feelings and so you have to have orthodoxy, orthopathy, you have to understand what the right feelings for that character are, because if you're going through your lines and you have like a happy line like they're dead, as opposed to they're dead like it does it, it seems like a weird thing, right, um? And so you have to have the right feelings and then finally, you have to orthopraxy, which is like the right action. So you've got to move like they move. If they had a lamp, you got to have a lamp. Okay, now, what I said was is that method acting?
Speaker 1:I actually learned that in seminary and, and one of the things that my professors said is that you need to take this type of mindset with Christ, that you learn right doctrine, you learn right feelings, and I think what's sort of shocking? We either do one or two things. We say we all our feelings are, we live in our feelings all the time and we're kind of like psychotic feelings, people, or feelings are stupid and don't listen to them at all, and there's actually a right way to feel as a Christian and that has to be trained, just like a method actor needs to train on what the feelings are. So, for example, love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, mind, soul and strength. That is a feeling and it's also a practice and you could say also, at some degree it is orthodoxy, if you just that's the right thing to do, okay.
Speaker 1:So with that, we talked about how we sort of struggle with changing because we either don't know what Jesus calls us to do we don't it's hard for us to be trained in feelings and then maybe we don't know what to do. And so what happens for a lot of Christians? We stop with like, I have all the information but there's no life transformation. Have you seen that in Christians that you know?
Speaker 3:Of course I mean, you see it, especially with people who are culturally raised in a particular way Right. And then they are learning that. I see it in myself, actually, that it's not the case Right With God in your life, and learning to change that about yourself or about themselves is a difficult transition. How are you so I'm going to pause on that learning?
Speaker 1:to change that about yourself or about themselves is a difficult transition. How are you so? I'm going to pause on that. I want to ask Cody the same question. First, cody, growing up as a preacher's kid, did you see people who had a lot of information about the Bible but they didn't see any transformation to their feelings? They still maybe operated with wrong feelings or maybe operated with wrong action and it was obvious to you even as a kid.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but like we, talked about in the 90s, more things were kind of like hidden, so people didn't open up and share as much. So you would think probably that oh yeah, they're speaking the word and these things, but you're not really knowing what they're doing behind closed doors. Almost Right, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So opening up wasn't a real deal. Yeah, okay so having community like that wasn't.
Speaker 1:So you didn't know what was going on behind the scenes, not really. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I think it was like different, because I was talking to my parents about this, about like was talking to my parents about this, about like church hurt and people being upset over the craziest, weirdest things, yeah, and them still loving those people. And then eventually they come back around. We're like, oh, I was so wrong, right, so, yes, innocent in a way okay, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:So, liz, let's talk about pre-Christian life. When did you become a believer?
Speaker 3:2018.
Speaker 1:2018. So six years ago.
Speaker 3:But raised in the church.
Speaker 1:Raised in the church and when did you take a left turn?
Speaker 3:I would probably say it was around my senior year in high school.
Speaker 1:Okay, what was the thing?
Speaker 3:Was there something you're like? You know, screw this being a good Christian person? No, not in that sense. It was more of the church that I was going to at the time. It felt as though every sermon was how young people these days are destroying the world.
Speaker 1:Southern Baptist Church, the kids today, the kids today Get off my lawn.
Speaker 3:And I think part of it too was that my friends at the time were also kind of stepping away and life for me then was changing. I was 18, in my senior year, so that independence of I can move out, I can make my own decisions was also occurring at the same time, but I didn't feel encouraged by it. I didn't feel that there was God's love. But looking back now I also know that I didn't understand what the gospel was either, and so I stepped out of that into that independence role and moved out and had a job and was supporting myself before I graduated.
Speaker 1:Okay, oh, you were supporting yourself before you graduated, Mm-hmm. Okay, so you moved out before you graduated.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I moved out in the middle of my senior year.
Speaker 1:Like who'd you move in with?
Speaker 3:A boyfriend.
Speaker 1:Oh, nice, okay, yeah before you graduated? Yeah, I moved out middle of my senior year, like who'd you move in with a boyfriend?
Speaker 3:oh, nice okay yeah, so like so you're living with your boyfriend.
Speaker 1:Uh, tell me what. What we get to in the sermon is that you are what you behold. So, for example, heath ledger totally beheld batman back in 2008 or something whatever year it was that that movie came out. Uh, and then, like, wouldn't sleep. We almost got him to like a psychosis where he truly became the joker and uh, and then his life ended abruptly. Did you, would you say that? What? During that time, what did you behold? And would you say that you became that which you beheld?
Speaker 3:Yeah, social butterfly. I mean I did whatever I wanted to and was being independent and supporting myself, and so that led to I'm going to go to these parties, I'm going to go out to this place where I know nobody, and I'm going to meet all the people and I'm going to have a great time and we're going to drink and we're going to just do whatever we want to do.
Speaker 1:Okay. So that sounds to me like the worst idea ever going to a party that I don't know anybody and just meeting everybody. That is not my strength. I don't know if you may that would be, I would feel, cody Angst's level right there.
Speaker 2:Weirdly, I have social anxiety.
Speaker 1:You may social anxiety. You may not know this. Yeah, I definitely could not do that. So tell me how you did that. Like what was?
Speaker 3:how would you break the ice with people just show up, okay, hello I don't know you, but I'd like to get to know you.
Speaker 1:That's probably okay, but then don't you get stuck, like I mean at parties. There's generally a couple weirdos there that you're like you know you just you said, hey, how you doing? And then all of a sudden they're telling you their life story and you're like knee deep into it and you can't escape. How do you get? Out of that um do you just go, like I go to the bathroom or something, and then you just leave, or what yes and no, but I think part of it was was that never a fear?
Speaker 1:that you get stuck. Never a fear that you'd get stuck.
Speaker 3:Never a fear that I would get stuck. Yeah, and if I was tired of talking to someone, I would tell them I'm going to go talk to this person.
Speaker 1:Wow, what freedom there is in that.
Speaker 3:Okay, but I'm telling you, just, very independent, it didn't matter, I would just go and do With no fear of consequence, no, like.
Speaker 1:Well, that way to go, I don fear of consequence. No, like, well, that way to go, okay, yeah, I mean there's some real freedom there, okay, so, so, so did you so during the weekday, weekdays, did you just think about what you'd be doing on the weekend?
Speaker 3:well, once I moved out, it didn't matter what day of the week it was I would go and take my three classes that I had my senior year and would be out by noon, go work and then I would do whatever after oh, wow if people wanted to do something.
Speaker 1:I, yes, I never said no yeah huh, oh, this is fascinating so yeah, okay, so then? Uh, so tell me about the party like what? Because didn't the parties get old?
Speaker 1:no, not to me, like I just don't get that okay, talk to me a person that if there was no purpose for it, I would be like why am I doing this? Like I just had zero tolerance for things that had didn't have an ultimate. And maybe this is where adrian would say like I'm so achievement oriented, like that did not get me to a next thing. I'd be like I'm not doing that, but for you, that was an end in and of itself, as being at the party was the thing yeah okay.
Speaker 1:So then, um, I mean, how does it? Because I'm thinking about like what were you? Because I just think about like for me, what I thought about is like I want to be a ranger, and so I thought all the times about I'm gonna be an airborne ranger. I'm thinking about like what were you? Cause I just think about like for me, what I thought about is like I want to be a ranger and so I thought all the times about I'm going to be an airborne ranger, I'm going to be an airborne ranger. And I eventually became an airborne ranger. I would literally stare at guys' arms that had their shoulder, had a ranger tab, and I'd be like ranger there, anything like that for you, like where you wanted and maybe this is just achievement-minded person like me I'm like I must achieve, I must achieve competition, win, that kind of thing.
Speaker 3:Well, I think at that time it was finding a job and surviving and supporting myself, and going into the military was something I had thought about, but it was not an option for me and um, so the other part of that was okay. Well, how do I support myself but also enjoy what I'm doing? And so that partying kind of led to a life of hospitality, so working in hotels where I talk to people all day long, so I'm being social in my job as well as being social after.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's awesome. I love that perspective. Cody, to you for a second For you. What did you behold growing up? Athletics, athletics, okay. And then that's what you did, that you became right and then you got hurt at some point and then you became a coach. And then what shifted it for you?
Speaker 2:from coaching I wasn't sure that's what I really wanted to do, but I mean, I didn't pick up a guitar till I was in college, pretty much basically, basically, and I started doing that and I guess I just slowly, I don't know I guess probably music was always in me, I just never had tapped into it. It's in my family, my dad, all of those so I guess I just never really thought about it because I was so and just I knew what I wanted to do athletically and that was all I did. And so I guess, slowly but surely, I just kind of made this turn of oh, I can do music a little bit here, and then I started doing it and it just kind of fell into place weirdly, and then that was it like music.
Speaker 1:It was just like music, music, music. That's all I think about, all I care about. Okay, that's interesting, that's all I think about, all I care about. Okay, that's interesting. So when you got to Texas country and you're doing, you're on the top ten, you're touring all over, you got like your tour bus and you're traveling all over Texas, was there a point where you're like I finally made it?
Speaker 2:Or was it like Let me ask my wife. I don't know, I don't think that I always look back and I'm going, okay, well, we did something. Yeah, it was there. So it's not like it wasn't successful. But it depends how you define success. I guess if you would ask her. But I mean, obviously I feel like like it. This is kind of where I always say, like covet was a blessing in disguise, okay why is that? Because it it stopped everything and it made you evaluate.
Speaker 2:That's exactly right yeah, yeah, pretty much. And then it was like, oh okay, well, you can do things. Were you just sort of like just doing the next thing that was presented?
Speaker 1:responding to like, hey, another invitation. I guess I'll say yes to that. Another invitation, oh for. And do things? Were you just sort of like just doing the next thing that was presented, responding to like hey, another invitation. I guess I'll say yes to that.
Speaker 2:Another invitation, oh for sure and when, and waiting on like, oh, you're gonna play here, okay, we're going here. Oh, we're gonna play here, oh, we're going here, so yeah. And then when that shut down, we're like, okay, and on top of that, my wife was. We found out she's pregnant in january of 2020. Um, and I don't think I found out she was pregnant in January of 2020. And I don't think I found out until maybe January, february, like February, mid-february, that she was, and then March happened, and then it all shut down. So we had already talked about, okay, going into that, like September, I would like step back a little bit and stay home more, raise the baby more, be there, and then it didn't matter right because this obviously covet happened, so that was just me just saying.
Speaker 2:Oh okay, well, this decision was made for me, so here we go okay, so man, it's a wild thing and I'm getting crazy weird yeah, it is weird.
Speaker 1:I want to go the relational dynamic here because I because when you married jeff you were in still that lifestyle sort of yes so was jeff like you're settling down, or what was jeff?
Speaker 3:before jeff, there was the desire to have a family, and that same person that I had moved out of my home in high school is the same person at that point. So it was about 11 years of relationship there, of of no growth, but also the promise of future marriage and children, but then learning that that was actually not the case Wait wait, wait.
Speaker 1:So you were with a guy for 11 years. That's a lot of years.
Speaker 3:Well, I mean, there's a couple breaks in between. Okay, of course.
Speaker 1:But essentially 11 years, yeah, and he kind of was like, did he put like a carrot out there, like one day we'll get married, yep.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And so 30 was approaching and I was realizing that that carrot was just dangling, it was never going to happen. And so Jeff came at a time of the separation, a big change in life, of coming out of that toxic relationship that actually kind of broke down what I had been doing in partying. So I kind of came back into the partying a little bit when I first met Jeff and because of his personality and how cheerful he was and excitement then, it kind of brought that more to light and so he and I had a little bit more in common. And so when we did get married yes, there was that time frame there where we both were very social.
Speaker 1:So then did you, when he came to faith in Christ? Did that propel you, or were you both on separate but equal journeys, if that's a way to put?
Speaker 3:that he came after. So I had already we had been married for a few years already and I had had these feelings of what's my purpose? Like what am I doing? Here, and he wasn't ready for a family yet yet, and our lifestyle was very much just socially doing things, smoke a pot, watch movies, doing puzzles, like just things you would do, you know, and, and so I'm vulnerable, honesty hey, listen, I appreciate it.
Speaker 1:Like I can't think of anything worse than smoking pot and doing puzzles, I would just be like banging my head against the wall. Puzzles.
Speaker 3:Yes, massive puzzles. Yeah, that sounds weird.
Speaker 1:Like a thousand piece puzzles. You're just like oh, dude, I see it all coming together, Is that?
Speaker 3:kind of how that was no, no.
Speaker 2:It was just chill.
Speaker 3:We would make food, we would smoke a joint and then we would eat and put a movie on and and do a puzzle in a night or two. Like it was just very chill. We didn't like we never fought because there was literally nothing to fight about nothing to fight. Do you have a?
Speaker 1:corner piece that? That's what I'd be asking.
Speaker 3:You know, maybe there was an argument of who got to finish the puzzle, but yeah, so you know, in that I was questioning what's my purpose.
Speaker 1:How old were you at that time? Early 30s, early 30s, okay, yeah, 33. Okay, and then you're like, did you start going to church, or something?
Speaker 3:His parents actually invited us and I said, yes, absolutely. Um, because part of that was I wanted to get to know his parents more and spend more time with them. Um, and that was a good way for us to do that, because they were also offering lunch every sunday that we went afterward and, um, so we started going to church with them and, uh, bobby pruitt was doing a sermon on romans on what romans?
Speaker 3:and I think we had been going for about a month and, uh, I I knew jeff was very angry, but I knew, um that the god, that god was calling me, like he was like it's your time now, like you're mine, and so I would say it was probably a few months after that that he came to know god too.
Speaker 3:So oh, that's wild, that's exciting, and then so then, shortly after that, you guys got really involved in our church and here you are yes, yeah, we went to forge and it was right after Forge that we decided to transition, but we had come up a few times with Jenny. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, that's wild. Yeah, okay, all right. So one of the things that I talked about on Sunday is that your personal time with God is going to be recognized in public. So for Cody, for you, when you think about quiet time, is there, does your? I'll just start with your wife. Does your wife notice, or maybe she doesn't know to notice, but does she notice a difference between you after you've spent time with the Lord or not spent time with the Lord? It's hard to know, because pretty much now all we do is hang out with church people and we pretty much see the same every day. But, uh, is there a difference that she might say between, like you when you spend time with the Lord and the versus you when you haven't spent time with the Lord?
Speaker 2:Probably not. So it's so yeah, yeah I would. I would think no, because whenever we get outside of not here, per se, but like that's what I'm trying to think about. Like with her, like it's just life. We're on the go, go, go.
Speaker 1:Probably you were telling me about some of your friends you hung out with and they brought up God to you. Sure, it felt like that came up a bunch Like what?
Speaker 2:happened, which I don't even think that well, I probably talked about jesus and god with friends before I was even here. That was just always a part of who I was. Yeah, and part of my story was I was a preacher's kid, that I grew up a preacher's kid. My grandpa was a preacher, so everyone knew that. So I don't think it was ever um like. It probably looks different now because of what I'm doing rather than what I was doing then, but I had always said, even when I would do radio interviews and things, it would just be who I am. What I do was play country music. Who I am, that's who I am in christ. Who I am in christ is that's me. Yeah, and what I do is is music, so that for me, I didn't have a problem ever saying that now was I not living right all the time, for sure, but I was also trying to figure out. You know, everything that I was doing just was good.
Speaker 1:The earthly things are good sometimes, but I think recently you told me about like, yeah, one of the recent trips.
Speaker 2:I can't remember exactly um, you had like what a friend that his dad's not doing very well and just kind of was, and I had talked to him again. We've talked about god in the past not really deep, but some and then later on not recently or recently he was talking about oh yeah, he's fully he. At one point I really thought he was atheist.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And now he's going oh, yeah, I'm, there's, god, 100%, I 100% believe that, and I'm just sitting there like what? And then we get to talk about a lot of times I just sit and listen, yeah, and then I'll say, oh, say, oh, how do you feel about this? Or how do you feel about this, and they're yeah, well, that this is why. So I mean, that part is all that part's good. Um, I just don't think now I'm outside of this bubble enough for people to really be. Yeah, you know what I mean. Right, I'm here with everybody in the church world and that and things like that. But there's, there are friends that would probably say, oh yeah, there's a difference.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what about you, liz? And this is probably the challenge that we have as Christians, especially that as highly involved in the church as you are and obviously we work here Is it difficult for you to have your personal time with God recognized by the public because you're not around the public enough. But I think you have a job right. I mean, or is it so remote that for someone to recognize they have to recognize through a computer screen?
Speaker 3:No, I'm three days in office. At my previous job I would say it was very in their face Bible on my desk, evangelizing all the time. But I was also very new.
Speaker 2:I was a new Christian at the time.
Speaker 3:But now it's different. Now I'm surrounded by Christians at my job.
Speaker 1:Oh really.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so it's hard to find someone to evangelize there.
Speaker 1:Okay, so maybe I'm asking the question not in a good way, because I keep making about the public being non-Christians and maybe I should say, like maybe this is the question Do people recognize when you've spent time with God versus when you haven't spent time with God?
Speaker 2:And I think when I have like, when I've spent time with the Lord in the morning.
Speaker 1:I definitely like if Adrian comes at me. Before I've had a quiet time, which for the most part I usually get that knock. My time with the Lord is first and then I have time with everybody else. But there are days where like hey, we slept in and then we got the kids off and I'm about to do a quiet time, and then she'll talk to me about something and I don't come off in the same way as I would, as if I had time with a lot.
Speaker 2:I would probably say that there's more peace, yeah, for sure yeah. I could tell you that about myself, that I have more patience Right, and I'm just there's just more peace about me. Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 3:And I think there's I think I recognize it about myself.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I think I recognize it about myself more so than anybody else.
Speaker 1:Oh really, Like you can feel yourself peaceful or you feel yourself angry.
Speaker 3:I feel myself when I'm lacking in one-on-one time with God.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay. So one of the things we brought up was that whenever Moses' face shone and this I thought was wild, I don't know if you guys caught this on Sunday, but Moses would go and meet with God in his tent outside the camp. He'd behold the glory of God. His face would like, it would come out shining. He didn't know it was shining. He'd speak to the people. They were freaked out because his face was shining. He's like why is everyone freaked out? It's like your face. Look at your face with Sean.
Speaker 2:He's like why is everyone?
Speaker 1:freaked out. It's like your face. Look at your face. He's like oh man, I guess someone have a mirror. Oh, no one did.
Speaker 1:And then, apparently he's like he tells him what God said and then after that he put a veil on. And then we learn later in 2 Corinthians, chapter 3, the reason why he put the veil on was because he knew the glory was fading it wasn't quite as bright and he didn't want them to see that the glory was fading. It wasn't quite as bright and he didn't want them to see that the glory was fading. I thought that was fascinating. And then Paul makes the point that that's how the Old Testament was. It was a covenant that was fading and it finally faded completely out when Jesus stepped on the scene and fulfilled the ceremonial law. And then he forgave the moral law so that we could, holy Spirit empowered, to live under the whatever civil law. And I made the comment on Sunday that the NFL is to rugby what the New Testament is to the Old Testament. Are you familiar with rugby?
Speaker 3:A little bit.
Speaker 1:Are you familiar with the NFL?
Speaker 3:Stop, okay, so the NFL wears like NFL. Wears like pads and helmets and stuff.
Speaker 1:Rugby does not. They wear in rugby. They're always worried their ears are going to get ripped off. In fact, have you ever seen a wrestler?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So wrestlers have cauliflower ears, where their ears are, like you know, smashed all over the place. And what rugby players? Whenever football made the big shift, american football, gridiron football, made the shift from like you can do laterals and backward and you try to sprint it down to the forward pass being a thing. That's when they started putting pads in place. They started having helmets, they started shoulder pads, knee pads, thigh pads, all these different pads, and rugby players just look at like that is not legit football.
Speaker 2:They're like you guys are pathetic.
Speaker 1:And NFL players are like we're the hardest core thing ever. And they look at rugby players like your sport is lame, it doesn't have a forward pass, like that is not even fun at all. And so what happens is rugby players make fun of the nfl football players all the time for being so soft, which is funny, because nfl players don't even know they're being made fun of, because they don't care. Does that make sense? It's kind of like how ut feels about like texas a&m, like that texas a&m has a rivalry with ut. The ut is like oh, there's still a team over there in College Station.
Speaker 2:I think that's how they feel.
Speaker 1:And so it's sort of like that where the NFL goes to the rugby like what, why are you talking to me? And that's sort of what it's like with the New Testament or the New Covenant and the Old Covenant. It's like the Old Covenant wants New Covenant. People are like be like. No, no, you still have to do all the old testament things. And then the people in new comes like it's not even the same game anymore. What are we? What are you talking about?
Speaker 1:When jesus fulfilled the ceremonial law, the whole point of like, for example, the sabbath day was it was a mark. Worshiping uh, the lord on on Saturday was a mark of God's faithfulness that you could trust him to provide, and it was a mark of every Jewish believer. So when Jesus says the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. And then when Paul writes you know, keep every day alike, or treat everyone a day alike, or keep one holy, it's up to you, you know whatever. Treat everyone a day like or keep one holy, it's up to you, you know whatever. That blew people's minds. And so, and to be fair, I don't.
Speaker 1:This is where, when people talk about keeping Old Testament law, I go. If you are going to keep it, you got to keep it, which means if anyone blasphemes, you better have like a rock on handy to stone them. If anyone takes the Lord's name in vain, stone them. If anybody creates a graven image, there's a lot of death that needs to be dealt out here, like if someone doesn't keep the sabbath, they need to die. If someone curses their mom or dad, they need to die.
Speaker 1:So you know, all teenagers in america would be dead if we were under, uh, the jewish law or we just have really respectful and polite children either way. Um, so like, I think that's the part of this that I don't think people understand, and why it was so powerful that we realized that we have a permanent hope in Christ. Moses' hope was in how well the Jewish people, israel people, were doing, which is why he was always afraid to make sure they only saw him with a glow and he would only talk to them when his face was glowing, because their hearts would be hardened otherwise. So anyway, any thoughts on that, as you heard that from Sunday or you want to pick up on any of that.
Speaker 3:Well, yeah, I mean, I think I look at it just personally. There are times where maybe I'm too spent of pouring out on others and though I may be having quiet time, it's not filling me up as much as I need.
Speaker 3:Okay, um, and so, yes, there are times where I think sometimes I want that glow to still show right and um, I just don't have the capacity for it and I think you know sometimes there's the put a smile on your face and do what you got to do, and yeah, yeah so I I noticed, um, I I've been sometimes in my quiet times.
Speaker 1:I do I know it sounds weird, but I do a lot of thinking that's sort of abstract and um, part of my abstract thinking is I always go back to um, all right, you, I showed the three circles of our identity in Christ, the compassion of God in our lives and the discipline of God in our lives, and I sort of realized that a lot of people's lives revolve around this fear of pain and that fear of pain could be the pain of injustice, like it's not fair, I hate you. It could be the fear of rejection, you hate me. Fair, I hate you. It could be the fear of rejection, you hate me. Oh, I'm worthless and that hurts.
Speaker 1:Or the fear of failure. I hate me when I don't succeed or achieve the thing and you just kind of look at my life and go, I stink. In fact I remember in my 20s trying to overcome lust and I put a sign by my bed that said everybody else is mediocre.
Speaker 3:Oh, my goodness gracious.
Speaker 1:And I'd look at that sign and then, if I, ever failed and like fell to lust or something, I'd go like I am the worst person ever. I went through the I hate me experience, you know. And then with people like when people you know leave the church, church, or like you know I did something wrong and I go, oh, you hate me. You know I have a hard time seeing that relationship beyond the hurt, right, like it's just, and I've had to really grow in that and I think being a pastor has forced that. I think prior to my being a pastor, I was like okay, that person's dead to me, I'm moving on.
Speaker 1:But now I've learned that, oh, that's actually not pastoral, that's not the right way to feel, which is sort of weird, to sort of like I had to learn the right way to feel about people, that people do things that are hurtful and I do things that are hurtful, and that doesn't mean that you cut them off. In fact it means you lean in. And then the other one of like the injustice uh, usually you see that with on social media, uh, and it's like, you know, liberals versus conservatives and it's like this war of words and worlds and those are the bad people over there, as opposed to. I was one of those people over there, and now I'm changing different well, talking out to be heard, yeah, yeah yeah so, and I was just like for which?
Speaker 1:which of these three? Fear of injustice, fear of rejection or fear of failure, or it could be a combination, but of those three which one sticks out to you the most? That would be the thing that you sort of have to um internally recognize that there is an emotional thing here that I have to overcome by my hope in christ fear of failure failure achievement not necessarily achievement okay, yeah, so that's the only thing I fear of failure, and what?
Speaker 3:Yeah, of following through, of finishing what I started.
Speaker 1:Not necessarily in an accomplishment. Not to achieve a goal, but to fulfill my word set.
Speaker 3:Yes, of my own expectations. Oh, that's impossible. Yeah, so looking at it, you know, here's the expectation I have for myself.
Speaker 1:Do you write this down or is it like something that's sort of vague and you always feel like you're failing?
Speaker 3:It's a combination. I mean, sometimes it is me missing something that I wanted to do, like reaching out to somebody or praying for somebody, and just completely forgetting about it and just recognizing. Oh man, I failed.
Speaker 1:How many times a day do you go? Oh man, I failed. I fail all the time, so is this like a perpetual like, do you need like a flat, a flagellation belt? You just kind of whack yourself, or I mean, how do you deal with that? Well, first recognizing it, Um cause I don't think a lot of people recognize that they're carrying that, and so just the fact that you say, oh, I failed, and then you can process.
Speaker 3:Well, also having like it's important to have grace and understanding for yourself like towards yourself, especially when you have expectations that you know you can't meet, but you still hold them there anyway, and that's not where your worth is at.
Speaker 3:Yeah, know or you can't meet, but you still hold them there anyway and that's not where your worth is at. And, in addition to that, having empathy, like understanding that you are broken and you're going to fail and we fall short every day. It could be little things, it could be big things, it could be little things, it could be big things, but really taking a step back and praying and taking those to the Lord.
Speaker 1:So do you process that failure in that quiet time? Do you have a specific time that you do time with the Lord?
Speaker 3:My quiet time is all over the place. It could be in the morning, it could be middle of the day, it could be in the evening, it just middle of the day, it can be in the evening. It just kind of depends on how the day is going. Um, usually it starts out with scripture, prayer and worship music in the morning. Yeah, every day.
Speaker 1:Um, but like being intentional but like processing the, the failure.
Speaker 3:I guess that's a more random as it happens yeah, more random um in like things that I've missed or oh, I dropped the ball on that, you know. Um I would. I would say quiet time, like my prayer time with myself, is more of the confession and asking for guidance and taking those things to the Lord.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:But they happen throughout the day and I'm very like, if I feel it in the moment, I'm going to take a step aside. I'm going to pray and ask God to help me in that moment of not feeling that failure.
Speaker 1:Do you ever feel like you can't put, and maybe Cody can jump on this one too? Do you ever feel like I did something wrong, but I don't know what it is and you feel like you can't put, and maybe, cody, you can jump on this one too? Do you ever feel like I did something wrong, but I don't know what it is? And you feel like in your gut. Do you ever feel that?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like yeah, cause I could totally relate to that and I have to go. That's where Psalm 139 really helps me search my heart.
Speaker 1:Oh God, see if there's any unclean way in within me and I go and I, I've got this physiological response of some sort of pain in my gut that I don't know where it's coming from and usually it's a I don't want to call it a misplaced emotion, but it's kind of like a misplaced emotion where I didn't react or emotionally process something and it got stuck somewhere and then my body is like reminding me that it's still there, which is sort of wild. Tell me about a time that you've experienced that.
Speaker 2:All right.
Speaker 1:Mine is anxiety, so what do you mean?
Speaker 2:I feel anxious about things sometimes.
Speaker 1:Tell me what and I know this sounds like duh, but for people who don't do anxiousness, what does that mean? Oh yeah, Can you describe it in terms of pain or feeling?
Speaker 2:Unsettled.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah.
Speaker 2:So it's probably a little bit similar. Yeah yeah, mine's not necessarily about anxiety. I guess it would eat at me if I didn't do something right, right, maybe. That definitely probably would in the back of my mind. Or not getting something done, yeah, yeah, being unsettled about things. Or if something bothers you rather than talking about it or wanting to have communication about it, just bottling it up, right, and then that probably turns into more anxiety.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:For sure.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, Can you? Is there either you think of a specific time where you felt that?
Speaker 3:Well, I could. I could say there's probably been many occasions where I've had conversations with my husband and it rose to a level that I am not comfortable with yeah um, because I'm I'm not a confrontational person and I don't raise my voice. I'm very calm and in approach and and sometimes my response is not normal and when I recognize that, I'm immediately feeling in my gut of like, oh that was not right I need to unpack that and figure out.
Speaker 3:What did I do? Is that my pride that came out? Is that my response? Because there's past hurt there. You know just what brought that out.
Speaker 1:That's good. Or what work is God doing in me in that out?
Speaker 3:That's good, yeah, I think that's. Or what work is God doing in me in that way?
Speaker 1:And sometimes it's To your point. Sometimes it's not Like on things that I've done wrong. It usually comes to me. I'm like oh man, but what I've learned recently and my wife's really good at pointing this out is I'm worried about something and I'm anxious about it and I didn't realize I was anxious about it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, does that make sense?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and that's like, and for a long time I didn't really see that as sinful, probably because I didn't recognize I had it Right. But I think that for me now to go, is there any unclean way within me?
Speaker 3:It's not necessarily like a something I've done, but rather a weight that I'm carrying. That's not mine to carry, yeah, or?
Speaker 1:like fear of the future. Fear of the future Like I'm about to have this conversation with this person. It's probably going to go bad and it's oh man, that's hard as opposed to oh. What an opportunity. The Lord's going to be there and he's going to be in the middle of that conversation.
Speaker 1:I'm sure other people are more like that and they're excited about the Lord growing them, and so I think that's where I've sort of learned over time that I need to lean into that and I think that's why it's so important that we have regularly scheduled time with the Lord, and I brought this stuff up and I know people have to be at this point, rolling their eyes every time I bring up the effects of being in God's word four times a week. Getting drunk goes down 57%. Sex outside of marriage goes down 68%. Pornography goes down 61%. Gambling goes down 75%. Loneliness goes down 30%. And then on the upside, sharing your faith with others goes up 228%. Discipling others goes up 231%. Discipling others goes up 231%. Memorizing scripture goes up 407%.
Speaker 2:I'd like to see what the anxiety number is on that yeah.
Speaker 3:I was going to say anger and bitterness and anxiety. I really am curious about that.
Speaker 2:That is. To me that's more of an issue than gambling or addicted to porn. That having anxiety and wanting to know the more that you're in the word yeah, what the percentage of where your anxiety drops and like fear of things, completely just fall off the charts. Yeah, I'm sure it does, but I mean you know the other numbers on there you had. I was just like man. I wonder what that looks like.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that is actually. I think I have that somewhere. But yeah, I think that that is one of the let's see, Because, I mean, one of the things that Jesus talks about over and over again is anxiety, Right, and you know, don't be anxious about anything, but with everything and with prayer, petition, Thanksgiving, present your request to God. I mean you would have to say like yeah that and the peace of God, which, yeah, yeah, you know that is a great. I don't know. I'll have to find that. I'm sure I have it.
Speaker 3:He took my thoughts. What's that he. He took my thoughts.
Speaker 1:Wow, he stole them.
Speaker 3:As you were talking about it, I was like man, I would really like to know what these other numbers are.
Speaker 1:Got them coach. Yeah, that's it, that's how you do it, yeah, anyway. So yeah, I'll definitely. You know I need to. I don't care. I mean, we don't have to have the. You study the scriptures. You'll be more anxious. I think we could all go. No, I will be less anxious. So in fact, but I think we're commanded not to be anxious. So being anxious is a sin, but it's a sin that, I think, is that passively happens to you. Does that make sense?
Speaker 3:Yes, or it happens and people don't realize that that is what is happening. Okay, good, and I?
Speaker 1:think anxiety happens because you behold the problem, you don't behold Jesus Correct. I think that's where a lot of people go, because when I think about Philippians 4, 6, and 7, I think about 1 Peter, 5, 6, and 7, john 14, 27, psalm 55, 22. Like, there's so many scriptures out there that talk about anxiety as something that God is calling us not to experience, and yet we still do. But if you, the way that you aggressively take this on, is you shift your focus from me. That's why, when people talk about themselves a lot, lot, I don't know if you've ever been around a person that just like, just goes on and on about themselves they're probably a high anxiety person, like a high anxiety person or prideful.
Speaker 1:I think they go hand in hand. Yeah, I really think they go hand in hand. A prideful person and a high anxiety person probably go hand in hand. Because you can't help about, because anxious, like what am I going to do? Well, the focus again is on you and a prideful person. The focus on you.
Speaker 1:I think it's just opposite ends of the spectrum of pride and anxiety might be two sides of the same coin. It's like this insecurity of who I am, and so I'm either prideful to make sure that everyone else knows how great they are, or flip side, I'm just going to just be defeated by it and just I can't do this. It's impossible, it's going to be awful, it's going to be worse. I need to prepare for a worst case scenario.
Speaker 1:Either one of those things say God clearly isn't involved, and I think that's where, as Christians, that's why Jesus is commanding us not to be anxious, not so you'd be prideful, because that's dumb. In fact, look at this 1 Peter 5, 6 says humble yourselves, therefore, under the mighty hand of God, so at the proper time, he might exalt you, casting all your anxieties on him, because he cares for you, and when he's doing that he's quoting from Psalm 55, 22. What I love about that is it's bringing the humility and anxiety casting off, as the I don't know. There's a correlation there between the two and I almost would say maybe even causation, but there's clearly a correlation between the two.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I thought that was fascinating. So I think the emphasis here, then, is how do we get it so that we are beholding the Lord, especially when there's times of anxiety and here's why I love this Ready. Do you remember Job?
Speaker 1:Whenever Job is whining about how bad his life is to God, how come you don't see how unfair this is? God doesn't validate any of his pain, not an ounce of it. He just goes where were you? How dare you call me to be into question? And he reminds him of all his deeds and then somehow that fixes it. Why? Because he doesn't look at how awful his life is and how awful everything. He's able to look at the greatness and majesty and power of God, even in a confrontational, negative way. It still takes away the focus on himself and it's focused on him. Here's a way that maybe this looks at. When I used to jump out airplanes for a living, that was kind of cool thing to say I jumped out of airplanes too yeah, so when I but when I jump out, I would get really anxious every time.
Speaker 1:I would be like so worried about the whole experience. I hated it. It's like I I'm doing this because it's my job what made you anxious?
Speaker 3:is it the action?
Speaker 2:or it's the thought of something not working.
Speaker 1:Uh, it's the the anxiety was I'm going to be, uh, maimed for the rest of my life and, um, it's going to be a painful. My hips can be broken in the wrong spot. It's not that I'm gonna be dead, fine, no problem, it's, I'm gonna survive the fear of something bad happening.
Speaker 3:The fear, the pain, yeah, the fear of the pain.
Speaker 1:If his death, no problem. If it was instant death, if it was a guillotine that you're like, yeah, russian roulette, all right, cool, um, I would have no problem. But it was the fear of I'm probably gonna be maimed in a hospital somewhere and it's you know, no one's gonna be able to take care of me and then I'll be destitute and lying on the side of the road somewhere. All right, yeah, from my airborne jumps. But when I was what's called a safety which means I was on the aircraft to help the other jumpers something transformed and I had no fear. I had no fear of anything. It was wild. In fact I would. This is kind of the bad part. I would be sort of torturing everybody else.
Speaker 3:No, I see that in you. I mean, it was so weird.
Speaker 1:I'd be like you guys afraid and I'd start shaking the plane. And it was weird because I was now in a safety position, I was responsible for them and for some reason it took away the anxiety off of me. Now, in Christianity, you ever heard of a crisis Christian? Do you know what I'm talking about? It's a person who is only okay with themselves when there's some crisis they need to fix and that's because their attention is off of them and they go from crisis person to crisis person to crisis person until they're fully wore out with their life because they didn't know they actually need to have normal friendships.
Speaker 1:And I think that happens to a lot of people person to crisis person until they're fully wore out with their life because they don't know they actually need to have normal friendships. And I think that happens to a lot of people. They don't even recognize that they are just a crisis Christian who sort of live off the thrill and the high of taking care of other people and their own relationship with God is completely screwed up. So they're serving God, but they're not serving God from rest. They're serving God for rest and it's always fleeting.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So anyway. All right hey any other thoughts on that? That's a lot to take in. Any other thoughts on Sunday's sermon?
Speaker 3:It was a good sermon it was a good sermon was a good sermon. That's good, sir um. So you were talking about um how we're living our lives in christ and how it came to be, and like how does that? How what does that look like?
Speaker 3:with your quiet time yeah, being involved, and I I think what I have learned from for me is the observe, interpret, apply of just like, what does that look like? How is god or how is jesus doing things? And um, what does that look like in my life? How am I not doing those things in my life? Um, and I think that's where I take away the most in my quiet time, of being able to be self-aware and present with God and him. Show me through scripture where I'm failing, where I'm falling short.
Speaker 1:It's good. I love that. Yeah, observation, interpretation application that's straight up seminary right there. That's exegesis at its finest way to go. Um, that's really cool, cody. Any final thoughts? No, not really. Hey guys, thanks so much for watching. If you got any questions, just go to pastorplekcom. We'd love to hear from you, or text us at 737-231-0605. We want to answer anything from faith, culture, everything in between, from our house to yours. Have an awesome week. God bless you.