Pastor Plek's Podcast
Pastor Plek's Podcast
A Reflection on Obedience and Sacrifice
316: Pastor Plek is joined by special guests Cody Sparks and Suzanne Baldwin in this podcast episode. Tune is as they unravel the layers of Mo's sermon over Exodus 36-40, focusing on the intriguing use of bronze mirrors by Bezalel to create the basin for priestly purification.
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And welcome back to Pastor Plex podcast. I'm so glad all you are joining us live, as we're here in Austin, texas. I'm here with none other than Senor Cody Sparks from the Cody Sparks band Rolling, and then also Suzanne Baldwin also joining us. Once again, so excited that you are here, suzanne. Hi, y'all All right, so let's talk about what we talked about on Sunday. Mo brought a message and he preached through the end of Exodus, exodus 36 through 40. And he kind of took the cheater aspect by. He said it's the same thing as Exodus 25 through 30, which it is. It's word for word. Exodus 25 through 30, which it is, it's word for word, except at the end it says and as the Lord commanded Moses it's kind of how each section ends as opposed to God's ordering, moses put the acacia wood and the gold and the cubits.
Speaker 2:Why do you think they did that?
Speaker 1:To show that they obeyed God exactly.
Speaker 2:So it's God told them to do stuff. And then they're like now we did it. Yes.
Speaker 1:And I think for them that's sort of a big deal, yeah, yeah, because he's like, hey, don't worship any other gods. They're like, okay, cool, and then they go worship another god, yeah, and so I think that is a big deal, and so I feel like this is where the entire nation is kind of like can we trust them to do it? They did a good job, so I think that was cool. And there's this one verse that stuck out to Mo. It stuck out to me as we were pre-prepping the message and it was Exodus 38.8. It says he and I think he's talking about Bezalel made the basin of bronze and its stand of bronze from the mirrors of the ministering women who ministered in the entrance of the tent of meeting, which to me is sort of a wild, random verse. That is kind of amazing and I wanted to talk about that when I read that verse. Does that on first read? Are you just like, oh, that's nice. Or give me your thought as a woman reading that?
Speaker 2:well, I think it's. It's great that the bible calls out that women contributed something that they could specifically contribute that maybe someone else couldn't right, right?
Speaker 1:I mean, it's interesting that I mean there was bronze of it, because they made the entire altar out of bronze. But specifically, this is odd, there are women who ministered at the ten of meeting, which means that they were outside. They didn't go in, obviously they weren't allowed in the ten of meeting, but they were. What does that mean, ministering at ten of meeting? Maybe they were like if someone came up sad, they would comfort them. If they, I don't know, I, I don't know.
Speaker 2:I don't know what it was, we don't know. Like there is no like. Why did they have mirrors? Were they there? Like they could fix their hair before they went in the tenement meeting? Well, they didn't go into the tenement meeting, but yeah, no but, like the people that they're showing the mirrors to, are they using them?
Speaker 3:It was their mirror.
Speaker 1:So what a polished mirror was is for you, right, so it's for you. It's like your makeup kit. You're like, how do I look? They're getting their hair and they're doing all the stuff.
Speaker 1:It's kind of wild that what the bronze mirrors went to was the laver, which you're like. What's the laver? The laver is where the priest washed their hands. Every time they left the tabernacle to go do something with the bronze altar, they would wash their hands. Then, whenever they left the bronze altar to go back to the tabernacle, go do something with the bronze altar, they would. They would wash their hands and then, whenever they left the bronze altar to go back to the tent of the tabernacle, they would wash their hands. So that was the. It was a purity ritual washing for the priests. Now watch this the women exchanged their vanity for the purity of the priests, which ultimately served the whole community, vanity for which ultimately served the whole community, vanity for purity to serve the whole community, and I thought that, to me, was really powerful. And then what? Personally, that's the thing that sort of moved me and I just wanted to hear your thoughts on that, either of you, cody or Suzanne, just on that piece about the. I don't use a lot of mirrors.
Speaker 3:So, talking about women and we have one on today, so I'm taking full advantage of that.
Speaker 2:I mean, I think when you mentioned, it was like their makeup kit.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean, it was something personal to them, especially if there were other things of bronze they could have grabbed and who knows, the ladies could have had their mirror of bronze and they could have had a bowl of bronze. They used for something else, absolutely, but I think that that was the fact that got called out is those were special, dedicated to them you talked to me about like makeup or like a personal item like that.
Speaker 1:What is that? Especially if it would have to have, it'd be very valuable and it's not like you just go to any store and get one.
Speaker 2:No, well, I'm thinking about you know, they're in the middle of the desert, like and this is just me making this up, or they probably got it when they left. They brought it from Egypt right. And then they fashioned them to these mirrors or they actually these were the mirrors that someone gave them to them in egypt, so they were very valuable.
Speaker 2:You're in the middle of the desert. This is the only. These may be the only mirrors on the whole camp right and you want to like? I'm sure even back in the day they wanted to make sure that it looked okay.
Speaker 3:Yeah absolutely the vanity piece of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's wild and you know, and if it was their personal mirrors, they knew exactly how that mirror was. So, and if it was their personal mirrors, they knew exactly how that mirror was. So maybe if it was a little, you know, a little messed up, they knew to kind of move it around Like they had a relationship with this item that I think was more than just like a regular household item.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, so this actually has like a personal sentiment. Yes, okay, yeah, I agree with that. That is actually. That's insightful, okay.
Speaker 1:So then, what I appreciate about that is where Mo took it next was 1 Peter 3. And he said likewise wise. Mo didn't say this, but 1 Peter 3, likewise wise, be subject to your own husband so that, even if some do not obey the word, they may be won without a word by the conduct of their wives when they see your respectful and pure conduct. Do not let your adorning be external, the braiding of hair, the putting on of gold or jewelry or the clothing you wear, but let your adorning be the hidden person of the heart, with the imperishable beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit which, in God's sight, is very precious, which I love.
Speaker 1:That that's precious, for this is how the holy women who hoped in God used to adorn themselves by submitting their own husbands, as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him Lord, and you are her children if you do good and do not fear anything. That is frightening, which is an interesting verses, but it kind of gets to the point of like, don't get so focused on your vanity that you miss out on purity, and I think that's exactly be focused on the purity of your soul, and the vanity or the beauty will come naturally. Talk to me about being a woman, and I think this is something that's for any person in anywhere but like specifically in the US, where you know you were judged so much, probably at work, on how you look, what you wear all that I mean.
Speaker 1:Right, I'm assuming that that's a thing like oh my gosh, why are you wearing that? You know? Has that ever been a thing? Yeah, that has's a thing like oh my gosh, why are you wearing that? You know, has that ever been a thing?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it has been a thing, but I think as you get older like you kind of care less. Like you kind of get over peer pressure sometimes. You're like okay, that's my, you know, this is my thing. But yeah, I think that you want to present yourself well. But there even is a thing of like internal beauty. Like you see, people and they just kind of have a glow about them.
Speaker 2:And it's not necessarily the glow that we talked about two weeks ago right with moses, but there are some people that they're a beautiful person right and it's not just how they do their hair or how what they wear or how skinny they are, or how whatever you know it's you know. If it's a believer, it's the holy spirit absolutely it's just kind of do their hair or what they wear or how skinny they are or how whatever.
Speaker 1:If it's a believer, it's the Holy Spirit, absolutely it's just kind of shining through yeah, as a single person when you read this. This is where I want to kind of go into single mode for a second. Likewise wives, and you kind of, whenever you read that, you go oh, not me, I don't have to listen to this part.
Speaker 2:Where do you go with?
Speaker 1:that.
Speaker 2:I try to kind of well. I guess the the Sunday school answer would be I'm married to Jesus. I guess oh nice, that was actually well played.
Speaker 3:All right, that, always that that was always the Easter, like go to back in the day, jesus. When was, like the nineties, where everybody wore suits, dresses yeah, even in my wife. Still this day is like I miss that. I'm like, oh, that's good. I kind of miss it too on Sunday mornings.
Speaker 2:Sometimes I'm just going to say I don't need to see men's toes on Sunday mornings. I don't need to see sandals on Sunday mornings.
Speaker 1:Men's toes are not beautiful.
Speaker 2:I'm not a foot person either, so it's fine I see what you're saying, though, about what your, what your wife says, because I grew up and we had our Sunday clothes and your Sunday best and you had to be ready for church, and I think even old people, older people now struggle with that when they see people and t-shirt and shorts shorts, flip flops, younger clothes, let me put it that way Younger clothes.
Speaker 1:I like that. Yes, okay, all right. So, um, cody, tell me how. How it is when your wife calls you lord that has never happened.
Speaker 3:Once I said who's your daddy? She's like you're not my dad.
Speaker 1:I was like okay, got it, never will say that again. Okay, it's like, oh, that was funny.
Speaker 3:No, I'm saying, hey, go see daddy or something funny, and she was like yeah, okay, got it so yeah, no lord well, I'm gonna try that one next.
Speaker 1:That's what the bible says. I just, I just run it by her like hey, you're supposed to be calling me lord, apparently, and you're not supposed to fear anything frightening next time we sit down and talk, I'll be sure to bring this up.
Speaker 3:and when I come in with dark sunglasses on because I've been smoked in the right eye by a Southpaw, then here we go. Yeah, okay, I'll be just fine.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, That'll be good. Yeah, that one is even challenging, for, like you know, I think anybody, especially in our culture, like Sarah, obeyed Abraham calling him Lord. I mean, when you like, just I love this because you're a single woman.
Speaker 2:Like does that? How does that? How does that come off to you?
Speaker 1:It's a little off-putting yeah, yeah, but like that's the word of God and we need to be kind of excited about calling our husbands.
Speaker 2:Lord, I mean right I?
Speaker 1:mean like Lord, lord, lord, yeah, it's like it sounds's like it sounds like it sounds like I'm about to jump into a wacky musical, um, but I, I think that I think we've so like, okay, I think the culture has done like pendulum swings, right. I think there was a season like I just think back to the 70s- macho, macho man, I wanna be, and it was like a man was one that would like dominate or be like out of.
Speaker 1:And then now we've gone to and we have swung to the currently the effeminate man is like sort of the ideal guy who's just like passive and just his wife wears the pants, I guess, or like has the job, and he just is, is like okay, I guess you're, you're leading the family now, and so there's a, there's a swing, and I think we're in the midst of a countercultural swing back. Uh, one of things I've noticed is like trad wives being very trendy, uh, where you're traditional and like I'm gonna be more in this role and I think you're gonna, you're gonna watch the pendulum swing back toward the other side and it will probably do this for eternity, but I, I've really it's. It's. It's, I think, a good move in general to kind of go back toward more of the.
Speaker 1:I don't want to say hierarchical, is that the right word? Yeah, a hierarchical view, but equal in value, distinct in role. But does that, when I say that equal in value, distinct role, does that? Is that? Even for you as a single person, for you as someone who wants to be married? Is that something you're like? How's the culture? I don't know if it's tainted the right word or when you look at this Bible version, you know it's God's word and you're like I should be excited about God's word. But how has, like your own experiences with people people maybe like shifted that from not being very exciting?
Speaker 2:I mean if I kind of just project myself into that if I was to be married, I would be married to a christian man. That's a growing christian, or that you know that's a strong believer right and in that sense I agree with. I think the use of the word Lord is, you know, just a sign of respect, and I think if they're leading well, then I would want to be able to give them a sign of respect. However, we would do that in our modern day terms.
Speaker 1:Right, right, right. Yes, my Lord, I'm not sure if it's quite like that right.
Speaker 2:No, not quite like that. I mean I'm conservative, yeah. I mean, I'm conservative, you know, and I think that women do have separate roles than men, but that doesn't make them any less or any value it's just apples and oranges, and I like both. I like apples and I like oranges.
Speaker 1:Yeah, nice, yeah. So, and then what I also love, and I know this, we went into this last night with our men's group. Likewise, husbands, live with your wives in an understanding way. No-transcript. So that command is like that comes with like, oh, I need to be intentional to be understanding with my wife and then showing honor to the woman as the weaker vessel. And weaker vessel could mean physically weaker, it could mean power structurally weaker, it could mean-.
Speaker 1:Smarter, smarter, yeah right, whatever.
Speaker 1:It could mean a whole lot of things, but I love this, since they are heirs with you of the grace of life, so that your prayers may not be hindered.
Speaker 1:So if you don't treat your wife right, and even if she's not having a gentle and quiet spirit, then your prayers are hindered, which I thought is sort of a wild thing to think about. And I think, for me personally, when I get to a place where, uh, you know, adrian, I never argue, ever except when we do and uh, there has to be a part where I have to go. I'm going to live with her in an understanding way and I'm going to love her, even though I don't feel like she is submitting in a way like calling me yes, my Lord, all that, uh like, even though that's not happening, I'm going to love her because I don't want my prayers hindered, like I think that that's and this might be the part where, if you don't have prayers, where you're seeing prayers answered, then this is not a threat, like imagine the threat was like you better treat your wife right or your prayers aren't going to be answered and you're like well, I don't pray anyway, so it doesn't really matter.
Speaker 2:But that's scary if you do pray.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, and I think that that should be the thing that like um, that should be the thing that gets you nervous is like, if I don't treat my wife right, my prayers which are many, because I am desperate, like I just think about paul is asking uh people all the time to pray for him. And so, like, hey, pray for me guys, I really. So I'm thinking he's praying all the time and so I granted Paul's single, but the reality is, if you're not praying, then man, I'm not saying you shouldn't be married, that's not what I'm saying, but the reality is you are missing out on a whole lot of help from God. And then if that threat should be powerful enough that you go, oh crud, I better make sure my wife and I are good, we good, we good, we good.
Speaker 1:Is there anything that might be hindering my prayer? Cause I'm about to go to talk to God and I'm about to ask him for some help on some stuff, and that's going to benefit the whole family, so let me know if we're not good. I think that's the part where that might be strong. I don't know if that's going to, um, that might help your uh relationship with your wife, cody, but I think if I were to go to Adrian hey, listen, I'm about to have some, I'm about to go to pray and if you're not good with me, then you need to let me know now, cause most of the time, I bring everything on myself, so it's me not leading well or me not doing something that I should have done yeah 100%.
Speaker 3:So most of the time it's me saying, hey, I'm sorry, I got mad because you were right. Basically, At the end of the day I was like, yeah, but that's on, that's on me. So, but don't get me wrong.
Speaker 3:There's the other side of things, where it's like oh, you're having a bad day, so take it out me, that's fair. Um, but go, yeah, going to that, that's actually really, that's really good of just making sure that everything's. Hey, are we good, are we? And I even think like, even before you leave the house, before you go to bed, don't ever go to bed mad, don't go to bed angry or upset with each other, no matter what. Hey, I love you. You're pissed at me and mad, but I love you and I'm sorry, and vice versa.
Speaker 1:And then you sleep 10 times better, you wake up better, everything's just kind of done, but what you're not saying is like, because I think sometimes people don't let the sun go down in your anger and they take that as like don't go to sleep. Well, the worst fights ever are when you're absolutely exhausted, hungry, tired and you say stuff you don't really mean A hundred percent.
Speaker 3:That's why we have this. Biggest deal is, if she has something on her mind before she goes to sleep, she has to get it out of her head. We have to talk about it. Well, usually that's going to bed. For me, the bed is a safe space where I just don't take anything to it.
Speaker 3:I just want to rest, sleep, lay around, nothing serious, lay down and relax. And then all of a sudden it's like hey, by the way, x, y, z? And you're like are you kidding me right now? Why are we doing this? Right now it's like at midnight and I'm like literally falling asleep. In the past I've literally fallen asleep with her like yelling. I'm like having a conversation Just crashed over. She's like you're sleeping right now. What yeah, I'm not sleeping.
Speaker 3:But, then you even say dumb stuff that you're like I don't even know what. I said One, I was out of it Half asleep. This doesn't count. This is not count. It's not real. Those are dreams.
Speaker 2:Are there any other actions that can hinder our prayers?
Speaker 1:Sin. That would definitely hinder your prayer. Unconfessed sin, yeah, let's say, because it breaks fellowship with God. That's why 1 John 1.8. If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 1 John 1, 9. But if we confess our sins, god is faithful and just to forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. That becomes essential, unconfessed sin, which is kind of what this is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's between the people.
Speaker 1:Because it's not like you've lost your salvation, but you've broken fellowship with God, and so, if we're not, hey, I need you to do this thing for me, but we're not, okay, right? That's weird, yeah.
Speaker 3:But there's part and. Part of it, though, is you may not know. Well, I was going to say, I was like what if you forget one Right, or what if you don't know one? That you did and you just kind of yeah.
Speaker 1:Psalm 139 is a great prayer Search my heart, o God, see if there's any unclean way within me. And I think when you go to that prayer, trust the Lord, he's going to bring up. I think inevitably in my quiet times with the Lord I'll do that. So I've gone with the acronym. I think ACTS was the typical acronym from the 90s up until now, but I like pray P-R-A-Y. Praise, which is kind of like because you usually say thank, adore and thanking at the same time, and so it's weird. So praise which involves thanking, repent, hey, god, bring up any unclean way within me. And how can I change? Ask, yield, hey, not my will, but yours, be done. That, to me, has been a simpler prayer model for me, specifically on that. And then that brings up the humility which is the whole point of Exodus 38a, which is all these women bringing their bronze mirrors and they in humility say I am going to give up my vanity for the sake of the purity of the community as a whole. So anyway, any other thoughts on all those things?
Speaker 2:Well, and vanity and purity feel like kind of opposite ends of the spectrum aren't they?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think so. I mean it's-.
Speaker 2:So that's.
Speaker 1:I think that's pretty big yeah, and it's humility too, because I'd say they gave up their vanity in humility for the purity of the community, and if you put a lot of itties in there it rhymes. But I think vanity in humility for purity of the community.
Speaker 2:And they're part of that community. Yeah so it's not like they're just giving it up. It's not like it's completely sacrificial, because it's that.
Speaker 1:But they don't ever get to see their bronze labor. So in the tabernacle court, that was only where the men were allowed to go in.
Speaker 2:I've been to the model of the tabernacle. Oh man, when I was in Israel, oh really, on the Negev, they built this thing to scale and so, yeah, you had that outer fence area.
Speaker 1:That's wild.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and women weren't allowed in there, they had the altar, and then they had the tent that had….
Speaker 1:Yep, and in between the altar and the tent was the bronze labor. Yeah, and so that's what they had given it for. So they would never actually even see it, which I thought was sort of wild, but they would have to trust that that was what their part of the ministry was serving that way. And I love the fact that they were ministering women and I don't know what that I mean. They probably were single, right, probably they were single women who hung out at the entrance of the tabernacle court and their job was to minister to people coming in, whatever their need was. What can I do for you? How can I help you? Which I think is kind of a powerful thing. And all business, by the way, all business of a city would happen at the city gates, at the entrance, and so this is like all business of the priests and all that would happen first there and then they might go in with like hey, I'm going to do this sacrifice, and here's the thing, whatever it would all happen.
Speaker 2:I'm sure there were like very influential ladies too. Oh, 100%, you don't just have it.
Speaker 1:Just, you know the struggle bus right there at the front door. Yeah, anyway, all right, all right, hey, thanks so much for watching. Hey, if you got any questions, you can text us in at 737-231-0605. We'd love to hear from you. We talk faith, culture, everything in between, and, yeah, from our house to yours, have an awesome week.