Pastor Plek's Podcast
Pastor Plek's Podcast
Celebrating Singleness in Christian Communities
317: Are single Christians being overlooked in our churches today? Join Pastor Plek and Suzanne Baldwin as they tackle this pressing issue, shining a spotlight on the diverse experiences of single individuals in our congregations. From young adults to widows, and even married individuals who attend church alone, they explore the challenges and opportunities for a more inclusive church environment. With 56% of Austin's population being single, the time is now to address their unique needs and foster a truly welcoming community. Discover how traditional singles ministries often fall short, and why a broader theology of singleness is essential. Pastor Plek and Suzanne delve into the complementary nature of marriage and singleness within Christian theology, celebrating the unique gifts that single individuals bring to the church.
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and welcome back to pastor plex podcast. I am your host, pastor plec, and joining me in studio today is none other than suzanne baldwin, who is gonna uh, no relation to like steven baldwin, right or alec baldwin.
Speaker 2:No, no relation to the actors or the piano, unfortunately.
Speaker 1:Man, because that could have gotten us somewhere. Yeah, it could have, all right. Well, hey, I'm glad you're here, even without any fanfare, and we're talking about singleness today, and this is something that you're passionate about, as you are a professional single person.
Speaker 2:I like to say intentional.
Speaker 1:Intentional single person.
Speaker 2:Intentional single person. No one is paying me to actually be single.
Speaker 1:That's actually a good point.
Speaker 2:If they were, I might be even happier about being single. Yeah, would you?
Speaker 1:ever get paid to be single.
Speaker 2:I don't think so yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, All right, We'll talk about that, All right. So, really, what we want to kind of get to, or are you single for a reason? I'm just saying I think that's kind of what happens. So let's just talk real quick, let's go to um different types of single people, Cause I think we talked about this pre-show like there's, there's a reality of like it's not just when I think single people and this is probably how most many people in church think of single people I think of 20-somethings who just graduated from college or high school and they're like now in the church and they're like, you know, dilly-eyed, you know, just kind of trying to figure out life. But that's not the only kind of singles that we have.
Speaker 2:Correct.
Speaker 1:So let's talk about that. What kind do we have? I?
Speaker 2:think that's the only kind of singles that generally evangelical churches tend to think about and prioritize and prioritize outside of, like a divorce care or grief care kind of ministry right but, yes, so different types of single people.
Speaker 2:You have the young people like you just spoke about yep, probably never been married, but you have people that are my age, over 40, that are also single, never been married, which you know. We're different ages. You have divorced people. You have divorced single parents. You have single parents never been married. You have widows and widowers and you have people that will show up on Sunday mornings by themselves, but they might actually be married, but their spouse doesn't go to church.
Speaker 2:Right. So I think they kind of fall in the bucket of single people for the time being as well.
Speaker 1:Okay, oh yeah, I definitely I agree with that. So tell me about, like, um, how? One thing I've noticed about Austin and I don't think this is like I'm making it up I think 50% of Austin is single, so you're definitely going to be if you're in the city of Austin, if you want to reach the city of Austin, you've got to be thinking about single people, yes, and so why do you think most churches don't.
Speaker 2:I think it's a box to check off for most churches and I think a lot of leadership are people that have been married from a very young age. So that's why I think that in their mind they know, okay, well, I got married right out of college or I got married right out of seminary or right out of grad school kind of early 20s and since that was their path, they kind of know that there's a bucket of people in that path Right, and many churches are set on life stages, so, like life groups and Sunday schools and whatnot are divided up how old are you, how old are your kids? You know what stage of life are you in, and that's you know. Some more conventional denominations just do that as part of their curriculum and then sometimes it's just easier because that's how you divide people up.
Speaker 1:Right, okay, that's fair, and I actually looked it up it's 56% of the population is single, so only 44% of the population in Austin is married, and so that should make us me, as a pastor, go crud. There's a whole portion of the population that, if we're not intentional about, we might miss, and so I think that's that's what, that's what makes this conversation all the more, uh, important. Okay, so let's talk about this then. Um, how can we be and I think one of the things you've mentioned beforehand how do we, how do we get and when it comes to messaging to make single people feel more comfortable, yeah.
Speaker 2:So sometimes it's just using certain words that you're meaning one thing but someone may be sensitive about it. So an example could be our church doesn't do this, but many churches have a family-friendly service and the intention there, I think, is for it to be an all-ages service. But they just say family-friendly. But as a single person I might go well, I don't have a family or my family doesn't live here, my parents live far away. I mean, as weird as that sounds that word, when the intention wasn't meant to be, we're talking about family stuff, but the word family so I totally.
Speaker 1:I was a single person all the way through my twenties into my thirties. I got married at 34. And so whenever I saw something blank family church I was like, oh, that church isn't for me, yeah. So anytime the word family was thrown around, I was automatically out. So I totally understand the baggage that that word carries.
Speaker 1:As a single person, because it can feel like, oh, that's not, like it's going to be weird if I walk in there without a family, even though what you mean is even what those churches, what they meant, was in, it's still hard for me. If I see a family church today, I'm like, oh, okay, I'm welcome there if I bring my family, but if I don't bring my family, then I'm not welcome there. What they mean is we are like a family, it's like all of us make up a family. But because the language is a little bit skewed, it's a little wild there, so it's challenging. So I appreciate that distinction and why that makes it so difficult. So even naming the church family church, I think, puts you in a you're only going to reach the 44%.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I mean I love families, I'm a part of a family, Right, I would like one day to have some sort of a nuclear family of my own. So the thing is, a lot of single people don't dislike families, but you feel a little left out when it's just yay, family, family, family like. But all the time how about?
Speaker 1:uh, a lot of times we say, hey, we're family believers. Does that mess with you?
Speaker 2:no okay, that's okay, no okay because that's, that's inclusive of kind of everyone and I think when it's in context of like you're speaking to it, yeah yeah, or even if it's hey, we're a family, we, we, we are a family.
Speaker 1:All right.
Speaker 2:Another like hot button messaging is a meal train. Meal trains are very family focused and, as weird as it sounds, it's great that we can care for people, but single people get left out of meal trains or when they've had issues. It doesn't take off and so strange things like that. What?
Speaker 1:do you mean? So how, let's say, let's go down the meal train route. So how, let's say, let's go down the meal train route. So I just let's say if you were in the hospital or something and then, um, you get home and then I don't know. I guess that's probably the being a single person in my 30s, you know granted, I didn't cook for myself ever I kind of ate mc, ate, mcdonald's, like my entire life, which don't judge me but like I think that gets a little bit hard, because when I think of what you need a meal train for is someone's preparing food for somebody else, whereas when you're a single person, you're probably providing food for yourself, but you're saying that you would feel left out if someone didn't think through hey, I need to bring you food.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Or just like I need to bring you food, yeah. Or just like I don't tend to participate because, yeah, because it's just me. But I have seen a couple times when these have popped up for like a single person, that people don't sign up, and so there's. I feel like there's some things that are not intentionally might be hurtful to single people in the community. That kind of come off that way, that's kind of awkward.
Speaker 1:Because I know when. Yeah, it is awkward. So if you're saying a single person has a meal train out there, it's like crickets on that one, but somebody that already has a family and Do you think that's a single thing or a well-connected thing? Because I feel like people that have a myriad of friends, they don't have a problem getting a meal train, which is probably the opposite, people who actually need one. Probably a little of both.
Speaker 2:Yeah, probably a little of both, and I don't know and I'm not getting down on the meal train and the care industry.
Speaker 1:No, no but it's a.
Speaker 2:Thing.
Speaker 1:But, it's another area that sometimes you just feel left out, like the word family can help make you feel left out and sometimes, even in this, sometimes you feel a little left out and you know maybe, maybe the meal train isn't like the solve for them, but maybe it's brainstorming with the care committee like is there a better way to care for people that maybe that don't have like a big group of people, I don't know, but it's just there's, or like birthday parties or housewarming somethings or whatever those things are, because usually with married people you've got a bit gender reveal party and a baby shower and a whatever you know, and so um, well, so on that note.
Speaker 2:I'll tell you what. When I turned 40, I threw myself a giant party. Yeah. And I made myself a gift list on Amazon, sorry, and I got a DJ and a photographer Way to go. And basically I kind of had my own wedding reception without a wedding. Hey, that's awesome and my brother and ex-sister-in-law got me my Powerade mixer because I wanted that, but the thing was I had to be really intentional.
Speaker 1:I love that.
Speaker 2:Because you're talking about. There are a lot of life stages that people that are singles especially singles never been married. It gets tough because you want to rally around your friends but then when you have the next group go through it and you're still kind of sitting there going hi, I'm still out here. Our culture, yes, has a lot of celebrations that fall into life stages.
Speaker 1:Okay. So I think this is where I cause I love this is what I love about you Cause this is rare, I think where you felt a need, you self advocated and then made it happen. And I don happen and I don't feel bad for you that you threw your own party. I think that's exactly what you should have done. If there was more of a larger community group that was dedicated to seeing a 40th birthday party, it would probably be part of the normal flow of life where, hey, it's your 40th birthday, oh my gosh, we need to do something. Where, hey, it's your 40th birthday, oh my gosh, we need to do something. So I think that should be a part of any sort of community's understanding of turning 40, or I'm about to turn 50 here soon, and that should be something that everyone should be excited.
Speaker 1:When I turn 50, I want everyone at my party. I think it should be single, married, whatever. That should be sort of a big deal, and so I think you're right. I think it should be single, married, whatever. That should be sort of a big deal, and so I think you're right. I think there is a reality that within the community of as a whole really speaking into just people. I don't know if that's a single thing, but it's definitely something a single person feels when they don't have somebody throwing it for them because they don't have a spouse who is obligated in a sense, to throw. It's my job here to throw this party Like. I think that's a big deal.
Speaker 2:Well, and advocating, and this is not necessarily something that the church would do, but I think, just talking from my experience as a single person and just kind of how, that has affected me and you're right, I've had to be proactive in some things.
Speaker 2:And when I was in my early 30s, you know I was praying about this. So I I mean in a nutshell, I grew up in the church. I got baptized when I was eight years old. I've been a Christian for a very long time and you know I went to Baylor and my parents expected me to get an MRS degree and you know I didn't. But I've had some really cool jobs and I've been able to do some really great things. But when I was a little over 30 I was praying about it and you know I felt like God said take your life off of hold. And I was reading this book and it had a part of the poem about, you know, the road less traveled and really God.
Speaker 2:God was like you're going to go down that road but, you're going to have a great time, and I feel and I've had people in this church and other friends talk about we don't hear enough people that have interesting lives as single people, that they don't talk about it. So that's partially why I wanted to chat with you today is that I would love for the church to be able to, you know, celebrate people that maybe have taken a different path.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But it's a good path.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. It's one that Jesus walked and one that Paul walked, and pretty much a lot of our spiritual forefathers walked, yeah, yeah, okay. So let's get, let's get, let's take down this, this not take down. Let's go down this road of how can we be more welcoming of single people.
Speaker 2:Well, a big part of it, like on Sunday morning, and I think a lot of it is on Sunday morning is just people that are sitting by themselves. I do have a friend that I usually sit with now and I know a few other single people and they usually have a friend. Or I usually sit with now and I know a few other single people and they usually have a friend or two they sit with. But before that I kind of settled into that routine. It was a little daunting to come on Sunday mornings and be like okay, I'm by myself Now.
Speaker 2:I've been at the church long enough that I've been in a couple, you know a couple of community groups and I know quite a few people and couples and most of them I could like tag on and like sit with them now. But when I didn't know anybody and I started during COVID, so that was even harder so then when we came back people knew each other but then, like you, didn't know who didn't know anybody.
Speaker 2:So I heard this lady talking on a podcast that she's very intentional about building friendships in the church and her family splits up and doesn't even sit together on Sunday mornings, and she said that was very controversial. She wrote an article for Christianity Today and everybody was freaking out that she wouldn't sit by her husband and her children on Sunday mornings. But she said you know, we're together all week, so Sunday mornings we split up, look for people by themselves, we go, sit with them, we welcome them and then of course, we go to lunch and go home with our families, but we want to be part of the bigger family the church family.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that. I think that's definitely a specific calling on her and maybe people even at our church. But I know for a lot of families one of the things that they're wrestling with is how to lead your wife, how to show up and, hey, we're going to worship together and that's a big deal. But I love that, the missional aspect. So there's like a whenever you're kind of looking at a church, I always kind of think there's three types of people in church. And there's the people in the infirmary, those people they need the church to be a hospital.
Speaker 1:Then there's people that come to church and they're like they don't know, they're learning and they're looking to be trained up. And then there's people that are missional and they're like I'm here because I know that there are people who are far from God or somebody who needs ministry and they're there to do the work of ministry in the service, with a ministry of presence, which is exactly what that is. So, depending on where you are at, that would kind of make different areas, different aspects of what you're needing, and so I think that's a huge blessing but to understand where you are specifically and how you're going to take part in the body of Christ, not to consume but to contribute, and so that might be a way is like I'm going to intentionally sit by myself so that I can go and find somebody sitting alone. That's a great evangelistic tool and I think it's a wonderful opportunity, but at the same time, I wouldn't recommend it for everybody because there might be, you know, sitting in church together might be the only time you're not arguing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and I'm not saying, everybody should like fruit basket turnover. But I don't know, once a month, maybe a challenge to do it, or if you know you have the gift of hospitality and you don't necessarily want to be in the kitchen or do. This is sort of hospitality. You're welcoming people in, you know and um, you know I even work at the welcome center and you never really know are people together or they like we don't even really ask about and I and I don't know if that's an awkward to ask about that, about their miracle status, but yeah you know, we don't really have a touch point for someone to raise their hand, even, and say, I'm a single person.
Speaker 2:I'm single, where can I plug in or who do I talk to? Like that's what on my improvement list.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, where do single people go? All right, I like that. I like that. Okay, let's talk about how are you going to move us from single safe or single safe which I think you told me before that's what you feel like we are to single friendly, and I think that would be again if I want to see 56% more of the population have opportunities to come to faith in Christ. We should be thinking like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay. So first off, I guess how are we single safe? Maybe I need like, what are the levels of single like churches?
Speaker 2:I don't even know it's a thing, but I'm glad that we're talking about it. So I made a list of some things that I really think that our church is doing well and then some areas of improvement.
Speaker 1:So maybe these are like baby steps. Here we go. This is going to be some shocker. I've not read this list ahead of time. You'll get actual reaction.
Speaker 2:Actual reaction from Chris. Okay, so we're doing good. I think the preaching has been, and is, very thoughtful and acknowledges singles when couples and family ideas are presented. So I know you're very intentional about that and the others that are up front do that, and that's good and that's not normal.
Speaker 1:And I think that might come from my experience as a single person 20s through 30s, of really kind of like I needed to hear that Because I'm like where are my single people at and I kind of will go for that, and and then I'll say you've been in the toxic relationship six times yeah, and that's kind of a fun experience and it doesn't have to be like even coverage or apples for apple.
Speaker 2:It's just acknowledging they're in the room and that's fine. I mean, sometimes you'll go there and like that, but sometimes it's just like, oh, and I, I see you, single people yeah that's all you have to do, okay, which is not hard so yeah, um, so what do you mean?
Speaker 1:because I think that's something to talk about. So when I'm like, hey, we're talking about marriage, hey, listen, single people, thank you just for listening to this, I'm yeah, marriage people first, I think that's.
Speaker 2:I think that's all you have to do. Okay, so, and you do it. So I'm saying this is a good thing yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, that's helpful um the fact that our community and discipleship groups are multi-life stage inclusive yeah, yeah that they're not just saying people with babies have to go to this group, people, empty nesters, go to this group. Right, singles go to this group.
Speaker 2:And I don't think, I don't think we need a single community group I don't think that that's the model, because I think it makes it safe, because I like having friends that are married. I like having friends that are 20 years younger than me or 20 years older than me.
Speaker 1:So it's safe. Do you think that I don't want to say? Normal is the wrong word. I think that's generous of you. Like I don't know if a lot of single people are in that mindset to go, I am looking forward to engage someone 20 years younger than me. Like, think about someone 20 years younger than you, Think about someone 25 years younger than you, and not that they're twits, but like you know, like you're having to deal with a lot of immaturity, yeah, and is that something that you're like? Are you? Does that bother you?
Speaker 2:No, they may not be my closest confidant or anything, and I think someone there could be 10 years younger than me. Most of my friends actually are about 10 years younger than me. Well, you're kind of a fun happening girl yeah but I think with younger people, I think it's just good that age just doesn't even come to the equation. It's just sometimes, when you think about it, or when I mention something like, what are you talking about?
Speaker 2:I'm like oh yeah, you were like born that year. You know something like that because you know I live a little bit. I love my 80s you do so sometimes people are like what are you talking about?
Speaker 1:throwing around duran duran, like, like everyone should know.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, so you know, I think a lot of people that are single that are thinking that they want to be married and that that is just the goal, and especially Christian singles. I need to marry a Christian single person. In much of my earlier life I was going to these large churches that actually had large singles groups that were kind of like a dating situation, meat market kind of situation, if you will like, holy meat market. Because I don't think that's wrong personally. And I don't think it's wrong either.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because I think there's either a church or the bar or online. Where are you going to meet people? So I don't know.
Speaker 2:And all three are not great if, at the time, god's not wanting you to be married. Right fair enough, you know, yeah, so, yeah, I don't think that that's wrong, but I think the church has only given that as the solution for singles and I think that's a little narrow in the focus when that's the only thought Because, yes, that's great, let's get you together, let's have interaction, possibly. But when I was in a church and I wasn't in my early twenties, the single Sunday school was what I like to call the Island of Misfit. Toys.
Speaker 1:And I mean you know what I mean when I'm saying the Island of Misfit Toys.
Speaker 1:I think this is where this is, where this is the question Are you single for a reason or are you single for a reason? I think that's the struggle, and the reason why churches don't orient toward singles is that the island of misfit toys is a conglomeration of people that can be very challenging and difficult and so, like, um, and not because they're not wonderful people that Jesus died on the cross for, raised from the dead, but because they're not, um, monolithic, because they don't have the same sort of needs, they're not sitting there going like I'm called to be single for a reason. I'm on purpose for Jesus, and like people like you are so rare, um, that usually people that are in the Island Misfit Toys, they are trying to get married and they're single, for, you know, they're difficult people. So, for, as someone who's not a difficult person, as someone who is very generous with who you are, that somebody like you, I think is rare, and so we need to put you out like hey, suzanne, you want to be married, right?
Speaker 1:Yes rare, and so we need to put you out like, hey, suzanne, you want to be married, right, yes, okay. So like she's not against being married, like someone like that is still a virgin. Like you have kept yourself celibate on purpose because you want to honor god with your body, which is like in this cult. Like we need to celebrate you in a huge way Because what God has done for you is show you. Because you know how many people told me, like, is it possible? I'm like, oh, you haven't met Suzanne yet. Hey, suzanne, tell me what it's like being single. Oh, it's actually awesome, it is. I'm on purpose, I'm on mission, I have a God, I'm open to marriage, I'm for it. But, man, do you know how many people told me, like, chris, you can't expect me to not have sex and I'm like no, actually, that's what it's, not that me.
Speaker 1:I don't expect anything because I'm a sinner saved by grace. But what Jesus, his standard is, is celibacy, if you're single or not married, and that's wild to people.
Speaker 2:Because our culture says that's the purpose of life, yep, but our Bible does not say that Exactly.
Speaker 1:And I think this gets into what a theology of being a single a theology of singleness might be a better way of putting that, because I think we were talking before. Like, we do have a theology of marriage. You know, the husband represents Jesus and the wife represents the church, and the way that you are married and the husband leads the wife and sacrifices himself for her and the way the wife submits to her husband is like Jesus in the church and everyone's like oh, that's so sweet, but you brought something to me that I thought was really powerful.
Speaker 1:What you told me before is that singleness is representative of all people in heaven because, you won't be married or given into marriage in heaven and that you'll be like the angels, which is sort of a wild thing to think about. Uh, and, to be fair, my one of my theology professors like like ah, it was funny, he, he just made a statement Like I don't care what that Bible says, I'm being married to my wife in heaven. I'm like that's like romantically sweet but it's not theologically accurate. Right, like, but I do feel like you'll know who your wife was. But it'll be a different relationship because we'll all be like accountable to God and it'll be a unique space because it goes back to like whose wife will she be in the afterlife if she had seven husbands?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, and it's. This is a lady that's an author in Australia. Her name is Danny Treeweek, and she's written she, she's written a book about theology of singleness and she likes to kind of say that they're complementary. It's like you have two paintings that need to be seen together.
Speaker 1:Nice.
Speaker 2:And you understand the picture of Christ in the church in marriage. But then I mean Paul said and we're talking about that in a minute I mean he said singleness is better and and our, and especially like the Western or the American church goes so far to marriage, marriage, marriage. We don't ever see that other picture. Right.
Speaker 2:You know when you were talking about. Well, you know, I'm unique. I think I'm unique because other people there are people like me that I know, because there are people like me that I know, and there are people like me in the church that just never get talked about or talked to or shown.
Speaker 1:Yeah, really. Now you're in your 40s, so it's different, but in my 30s I was still thinking I want to get married. So put me around other people my age to get married to. That was like church. If you could do that for me, huge blessing. I will do whatever you need me to do. Serve in children's ministry, I'll greet Whatever. I'm on the team, I'm on the team. So I think, though, what happened, for what you're telling me is that there's a lot of people that are functional humans, that aren't part of the Island of Misfit Toys, but get lumped in with the Island of Misfit Toys, and so what you're asking for is like let me be a part of the family of this church in a meaningful way that doesn't relegate me to the land of isolated singleness.
Speaker 2:Is that what you're saying? Yes, and I mean kind of tying with. I know that the podcast y'all have done a great job, I think, about talking about homosexuality and people really choosing God over that lifestyle. They're there and the thing is, I can relate to those people because you know I'm in the same situation that they are and and I I've had people say well, you can't expect them to not have love for the rest of their life. Well, if they're a Christian being obedient to Christ, you know you're living a celibate life and that's what we're called to.
Speaker 1:That's like so I called to, so I love this. Okay, so we're having this conversation right now, real time. What do I need to do with you as a lead pastor here? I'm like Suzanne is a functional human being who loves Jesus, who is involved in discipleship, who is a part of community, who is an active in her faith. How can I empower you? How can I I don't know what the right word is how can I lift you up to really be a spokesperson for single people?
Speaker 1:This is where, like, what I heard you say is, what you don't want is just have the singles ministry. What you want is, or what you're and what you want. I don't want to make it like you're here at my list of demands, uh, but how could you best serve the church If I, if I was going to you know I'm the coach of the Kansas City Chiefs I put Patrick Mahomes at quarterback. I give Travis Kelsey. He's the tight end. What do I do with you, with this incredible, dynamic, single person who is functional as a human? How can I best support you?
Speaker 2:You know, I don't know. I have a few ideas to help with things I see, but I think you know it's probably praying with the elders and just like you know, seeking God about what kind of steps would we need to take to make this a single, friendly church?
Speaker 2:And one of the steps I had was pull some single people up front. On Sundays we don't have any single people making announcements, we don't have single people doing communion and I know it's usually like a married couple but I've never seen like two women up there or like so some of that, like just some of that pulling them a little bit, yeah, out of the woodwork.
Speaker 1:That's neat, like easy things.
Speaker 2:Those are like oh yeah, duh, okay, so I, you know, I don't know what it looks like and it's, you know, it's. It's building friendships, regardless of your life stage. And so I guess my question, my answer, is I'm not sure, but I'm willing to like, I think, one of the things.
Speaker 1:So here's my, you know, like I love it when people bring me problems and then I go. Here's why I want you to go pray about solving it. Uh, and so what I would say is like, suzanne, what I need you to do is pray specifically and give us the wisdom of, because I want you fully engaged, using your God-given gifts to serve our church. And I don't know what that looks like, cause it might mean that you know, does that mean like you know? When I think of integrated ministry, like serving in the student ministry, or it could mean serving, yeah, like. I mean simple things, like prayer team. We do.
Speaker 1:We have a sign language ministry and one of the things that they said, we want to be a deaf-friendly church and I'm like so this language of deaf-friendly? We also have a Spanish translation, and so we want to be a Spanish-friendly, and I'm like, oh man, we're trying to be friendly to all things, to all people, that we might win some, which is awesome, but I feel like sign language that reaches this percent of the population, but that percent of the population is completely unchurched. Single people is probably more unchurched than married people, is what I'm assuming. And so how and this is where I'm like, how do we get us to a place where we're not only single friendly but single engaging, single reaching, single reach is that a thing? I don't know. If that's a, how do we reach single people? But single engaging, single reaching, single reach Is that a thing?
Speaker 2:I don't know if that's how do we reach single people? Come on, give me the answer. God on that, um yeah but I do.
Speaker 1:I think. I think you're right on making it and this might be where it's like. Having the biggest place to have single people honestly is at our we have. We call it the gates of Zion. Might sound like a cheesy name, but the gates of Zion, psalm 87,. We call it the Gates of Zion. It might sound like a cheesy name, but the Gates of Zion, psalm 87,. Like the Lord loves the Gates of Zion more than any other dwelling place in Jacob. The Lord records the registers of people saying this one was born here. In other words, at the gates, at the front door, is where is the God's favorite place of heaven? And so our front door of the church, where we are asking people to step into heaven. I would love to have more single people there to meet the other single people coming for the very first time, and I don't mind if you're like okay, I'm sitting with you, let's go. That to me would be the most encouraging thing in the whole world. It at least might be the first place that we start, and I don't know if you know other pastors listening to this. I think that might be the place where you go.
Speaker 1:It's like, if you know, when you see somebody walking up by themselves, it's. We had a lady walk up by herself the other day and I just hey, you know, and she's only going to be here for like four months. And I'm like, hey, is this? Hey, how many times you been here? She's like, oh, this is my second time. I said, oh, awesome, you know, yeah, I'm only here for four months, but I want to be very involved as much as I can.
Speaker 1:I said, okay, great, she's like I would like to serve in the children's ministry. And when someone says that you escort them directly, you do not pass go, you go straight to our children, our branch kids director. So that that was kind of a fun experience. But I think, in the same way, if you go, you know you kind of notice you're doing your like private detective sleuthing, and when someone walks up, you look at their hand, no ring, okay, got it. And then you go, hey, no ring as well, we can be friends. I don't know, is that kind of what you're thinking or like? Is there, is there something that be that intentional? Is that over the top? It's a little over the top. It's a little over the top.
Speaker 1:But I mean, I think that's the part where, like you know, when I was a single person, I didn't want anyone to talk to me. I know that sounds weird.
Speaker 2:No, earlier about the family splits up. She said that there was some controversy and people are like you're breaking up the family, like you mentioned, or there's people that come to church and don't want anybody to talk to them.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:But she was like the whole point of church is community. Together on Sunday mornings At one time a week, you're worshiping in a corporate situation, it's not your private worship time. So if you're actually walking to a church, you should be thinking like that, you should at least be okay for someone to maybe invite you to sit with them, and if they don't, you don't force yourself on them and go. Okay, fine.
Speaker 1:Yeah because I think here's what I would do as a single person.
Speaker 1:Up and through my 30s I would always go sit in the front row because I knew nobody normal would sit there and I would just avoid everybody and I would have my own experience with the Lord. But it was weird. And then eventually, as I got more you know, I figured out who is who and what, what the whole thing was about. Do you ever feel like as a single person coming to a new church? Do you ever feel like, oh no, what if I get stuck in the Island of Misfit Toys and I'm, you know, forever branded, like in middle school or something?
Speaker 2:I think you're already there. You're in the Island of misfit toys. Yeah, I don't think you get stuck there.
Speaker 1:Okay, you can move from the island of misfit toys. You can move from the island Because sometimes the people that come and engage you initially are from that island. Yes, and that could be a challenge, because you're like, all of a sudden you're wanting to engage and then you got someone's on you like glue and you're really encouraged by that for about 10 seconds and then you're like okay, I want to find my own friends now.
Speaker 2:But it's not even like single people having to find the new single people to be friends with. I think it's a challenge for everyone in the church to build friendships. Yeah, and married people, building friendships and being intentional with single people. Like there is a family that is inviting me over to kind of join them for a family dinner about once a month and I have another friend that does that. They kind of have adopted.
Speaker 1:That is so huge.
Speaker 2:Yes, and that's so and how easy that is, because I don't care if your house is messy, if you just set an extra light at the, you know, at the table.
Speaker 1:That's all you have to do, yeah, and I would just what the amount of parenting that goes on. So here's why, like I, if someone comes over to eat with us, I'm either talking to that person around parenting, so there is no conversation between adults. It it's like so I would want to, I wouldn't want to torture you, it's like what. I just came here and you just the entire time you talked to your kids and asked about their day and then you told them to be quiet and then you took them outside and you came back in and then you said eat your food. And then you shoveled food in their mouth and it's like a nonstop insanity which might be like different. You know, when you have a five-year-old and a seven-year-old specifically, it's super challenging. But I'm assuming that these are, or maybe you have just more functional families.
Speaker 2:Well, no, but I mean, that's kind of how it happens, and another family has invited me to maybe come over and be part of their family, and that's okay. You can do your parenting.
Speaker 1:The thing is, you don't have to change what you're doing, so that's encouraging to hear.
Speaker 2:Yes you do not have to change it.
Speaker 1:Because that to me I'd feel so embarrassed Like, oh my gosh, If it's someone that's committed to the church.
Speaker 2:So this is not for our new people just coming in the door on Sunday mornings. But if someone, especially if they're a member of the church if they're in your community group if they're in your discipleship group. Just ask them if they want to be part of your family every so often, and sometimes they probably will.
Speaker 1:And you know it's kind of fun to be in the middle of things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, into the chaos and be like woo and help a little bit, Like I helped set up some birthday party stuff. And there's another young lady.
Speaker 1:So what you're telling me, because what you're saying is almost too good to be true, because what you're saying is I'm willing to come to your birthday party, help you set up, help you clean up, just so I can be a part of the family experience that's wild to me Because we're all part of a bigger family and I know that again like.
Speaker 2:this is where I'm like.
Speaker 1:I've never heard of that before Bigger family, it's like hey, let me go just suck down the worst part of the party so that you can be more engaged with your kid, and blah, blah, blah. That be more engaged with your kid, and blah, blah blah. That's amazing.
Speaker 2:Well, and it's also so their kid can maybe meet a person that's not exactly like their parents.
Speaker 1:And that's always a blessing, especially if you can speak into the lives of children or teenagers, or I guess?
Speaker 2:they're all children.
Speaker 1:But yeah.
Speaker 2:But that is a slippery slope with then relegating all singles to go help in the children's department. Yeah, is a slippery slope with then relegating all singles to go help in the children's department. Yeah, I've been very clear with adrian that I will come help with events, but I don't do sunday mornings because a lot of times churches that are there like, oh you're single, go help with the kids right, it's just this automatic thing.
Speaker 1:I don't think that's interesting. I don't think like that. I always think you're single, go help in the welcome team, but yeah, um, but a lot of times, a lot of churches they do, they, they air to that.
Speaker 2:But you know it. Really it blesses my heart because there's this one little girl in our community group and she told her parents she wants to be like miss suzanne because, miss suzanne only has a dog and doesn't have little children to take care of and she has three little younger siblings and she thinks it's pretty great that I don't have to deal with a bunch of babies and stuff and I've had friends over the years that say that and it's just they're not exposed to people that are not exactly like their parents and they still love jesus, and you know it's just a different path and that's
Speaker 2:that's what I mean by visibility, like just having interaction with people, and that little girl she's probably mean by visibility like just having interaction with people, and that little girl she's probably gonna get married, like I don't know, but if she doesn't it's okay, like she's seeing that you can have a really cool life.
Speaker 2:I mean, I have shopped on all seven continents and been over to 55 countries and driven the drummer of my favorite band in my car wow and god's letting me do a lot of really cool things that I know I've probably been able to do because I've had the time and the energy and the money and everything to go do those adventures.
Speaker 1:That's really beautiful. Wow, that's crazy. So what, how do we focus? I like the focus on friendship because I think, I think you know whenever.
Speaker 1:I tell people and maybe you feel like a single person gets like, um, I don't know the stigma of being single and so therefore people avoid them. Um, but I think when you're in this, like you know, a lot of my life outside of Sunday morning it revolves around school, sports, an insane amount of things, um. But there are people, like you know, most people my age, actually their kids, not most a lot of people my age, uh, their kids are like high school or older. Right, I'm a late bloomer and so rarely do you have people my age with five-year-olds, but what I think happens is, as you get older, then there's people that are married and then I think the place where I would say is like, probably like empty nesters, might be a great spot for them to be reaching out, to look out for single people, because it's a different vibe. Is that what you're sort of saying? Like, maybe is that the direction that probably the most able to make that connection quickly, to integrate singles into the full life of the church?
Speaker 2:I don't know.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah I don't know I was just yeah, I, I, I, yeah, I. I don't know if it's just that prescribed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, because there's got to be an organic aspect to this that and okay, so I'm gonna go back to my list real fast, yeah, hit it I do think we do a pretty good job in the welcome time because sometimes I see people by themselves and people are talking to them.
Speaker 2:So at least I've been at other churches where they have the welcome time and it's the most uncomfortable thing. You're just like staring at the ceiling. Nobody talks to you, especially when they make you like stay seated or whatever, like visitors stay seated so we can see you.
Speaker 2:I've been in a church where they've done that, that's brutal so you know, I think our church does that okay and I think the fact that you're willing to have this conversation with me today is a good thing. It's huge and that you want to be a single-friendly church. Let me look at my list of things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean. The big thing for me is if 56% of the population is single, then you're stupid not to think through how to reach single people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and Jesus was single. Yeah, putting that out there, there's a lack of connection point for singles, and I mentioned this earlier. Just, you know, we tried to kind of get a lunch thing going and that didn't get a whole lot of traction because we were never able to get the word out or the people around here just weren't going to do it. So I'm not sure if that's a solve, but or you just need a leader.
Speaker 1:So I think a contact person, or somebody at least to kind of start right, it just needs to be who wants to own this, and without a owner, that then is, I think, specifically on that one is like we're okay with like texting. All the single people say, hey, here's where they're meeting, but you need someone to lead it, otherwise what exactly happens? Happened or what? What? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:It just fizzles the single people usually sit with the same, the same friend. So even the people that are here, they're not, they aren't necessarily connecting, because maybe they don't know that the people over there.
Speaker 1:So there's, I think there's just some like we don't, there's not an awareness and and, to be fair, I do know who most of the single people are and in my head should I be thinking I should connect them?
Speaker 2:Well you could do that, or you should be thinking. Are they connected to a community group?
Speaker 1:Right, feel like they're part of the family. That's my initial.
Speaker 2:So I'm not necessarily saying you have to connect all the single people together, but I'm thinking also as a single person coming in new. I don't know if I'm going to want to like just show up to a community group by myself, Like showing up here is hard, but then if I, you know, the next step is really get connected in the community group. That's where you build the relationships and that's where maybe you make friends with people that have kids in elementary or empty nesters or whatever. That's where that happens.
Speaker 1:And so I just feel like Make sure you come. Hey, can you do? What service do you go to First? Can you come to both services? Maybe, yeah, and then I'll. I'm not trying to hook you up, but I am trying to.
Speaker 2:But I will need to have something to tell them. Yeah so that's the thing. That's why I think we need to kind of figure out what it looks a little more what it looks like. But you know, I think it's just it's tough because and it's tough for married people to plug into community group too so.
Speaker 2:I'm not saying that it's not because that's the taking a step of meeting up in the middle of the week in a place that you don't know people, and taking a step of meeting up in the middle of the week in a place that you don't know people. And so it's challenging, regardless of your life stage, and it's a little, maybe less daunting, if you have a partner with you, but then, like my group, women meet one week, men meet the other week so you kind of go on your own anyways, but it's a family group and they get together once a month.
Speaker 2:You know that that model works, I think.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and for for me at my you know it's funny my men's group is mostly single, which is wild. In fact, I went around because we were talking about marriage stuff and I was like, wait a minute, only four of the 18 of you are married and I was like it was just an epiphany that I didn't even think about until the subject came up about marriage and um, so I thought that was fascinating. Uh, and I think that's probably true of of a lot of groups I mean mine specifically, like a lot of, I mean of the of the 18 people that were there was that, uh, need to do math real quick 14 were single, 14 of 18. That's wild, yeah, okay, anyway, well, that that was my list.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I like that, I like your list. So I think, that what you're saying is that you're going to be at both services now and that we are going to start connecting you to more people and you're going to be involved in multiple community groups. I loved it. This is going to be a great thing. I'm so excited for this ministry yes, All right, that's awesome yeah.
Speaker 1:You heard it here first folks, all right, so Suzanne's going to be here at both services. Come find her, and especially if you want to talk to her about what it is to be single and have a purpose and have a reason for the hope that you have and to not just sort of like wallow. What is interesting, when I was single I would be crying out to God in just desperation. Have you had any moments like that? Oh, yes, okay. Like lying on the bathroom floor in the fetal position, going like I don't care about anything.
Speaker 2:Yes, okay, and I mean and part of, I think part of the contentment I have right now is I've watched enough friends go through bad marriages. Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:And you don't want to see people hurt. So that's not what I'm happy. I'm not happy to see them, but I've been involved in enough to see good marriages and see tough marriages and see married people that want to be single because they're not in a marriage that really got ordained, but then they committed to that marriage and they need to stick it out. So I think there's some of that understanding that comes when you're a little bit older, but I think and you always hate when you're when married older pastors tell me singleness is a gift, but I so. Tara Lee Cobble is single and she does the Bible recap.
Speaker 1:Which is an amazing book.
Speaker 2:Yes, and a podcast. I'm in the middle of it right now and she speaks a lot about her intentional singleness and she says you know, right now she is embracing her gift of singleness and God is the gift giver and you don't tell the gift giver what you want. You get what the gift giver gives you.
Speaker 2:She also, like myself, would like to be married and when God's going to get more glory from her being married than single, she thinks God will give her that gift. Now, I agree 100% with what she's saying and I don't think that means there's the one in all of that, like we could go down that path another time. But I think that our focus should be on Jesus and loving Jesus and, you know, leaning on Jesus, because I mean, you know I'm in a job search right now and that's a tough spot to be for anybody, but particularly when you're single on your own. You know I have support from some family and stuff, but there are many times I have been on the floor crying why am I by myself? But in the Bible, you know, paul says it's the better thing. So that was a question for you have you ever preached on first Corinthians seven, seven through eight.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I have, but I don't think I preached on it as like a standalone, because we preached all the way through the book of first Corinthians, uh, but and I mentioned it like it's actually, you know, I talked about married people and single people in that sermon, but I think that is something that that I think for you. Like I said, this is where I feel like maybe.
Speaker 1:I'm wrong Cause I'm open to being off on this, Like I don't think. When I say, hey, singleness is a gift and it's a purpose, I feel like most single people are like I know that that's true, but it's not me and they're thinking like that's great and all those people are awesome, but unless you have a specific calling, then you don't sense it. Like Deacon Aaron, who's our Deacon of Compassion, like he's only in his 20s, but I think he's got that gifting and he's like embraced his singleness.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's really a special, powerful thing and I mean, I would have struggled with that too, and I think sometimes it's confusing the way that in the church we talk about gifts. Yeah. So, like you know, gifts of the Holy Spirit that are kind of put upon you, but I feel like this is a different kind of gift. It's a gift you can have for a season. Yep.
Speaker 2:And then if God wants to change the gift because I kind of think I might be married eventually. I'm not saying that I would, but I want to be married to the right person.
Speaker 2:That's going down a parallel path to where God has me going that I would be supportive of them in their ministry and in their life and in their adventures and they'd be supportive of me. And so I think maybe I might get married one day. But I can't like hold my breath and think, oh, I would have the most horrible life if I never got married.
Speaker 1:Right. That's not the right attitude. So the ministry you're giving me here, right here, that's powerful. I don't think like.
Speaker 1:I think this, I feel like this is such a you know, in a culture that's sex crazed, your statement of I'm content, you know, whether in plenty or in want single or married, like that, is such a countercultural statement that says Christ alone is my hope, and I think a lot more people need to hear that, because what I think single people project is, um, hey, I'm available, hey, I'm available, and you haven't done that once, uh and again. And it's not, it's not wrong to be available. That's a God, you know, he finds a wife, finds a great thing. But I think, at the same time, like you're, and I think this is I don't want to say this is the unique part, but I know I keep saying it Um, but most, a lot of times, single people are, can have the history of being known as more selfish or more into themselves and unchangeable, and get a roommate, because you need to know what it's like to live with somebody and not like them, disagree and not take your ball and go home.
Speaker 1:I think that's where a lot of um people who've interacted with singles kind of have felt that pushback and it isn't been a warm welcoming experience. Like you are, like I think that's the part like everyone needs to get no suzanne, she's awesome. Like, because I think that's the like you're such an anomaly, uh, and maybe the part where it's like we need to start discipling single people to have a heart that says how, how am I going to become the one as opposed to find the one, and I think that would be a real what we'll call become the one ministries.
Speaker 2:And it's dying to self. Yeah, and as a single person. I mean, god commands us all to die to self. Well, mine is kind of easy. I can say this is the way I'm dying to self. And maybe a married person? You'll have to dig a little bit deeper. How am I as a married person? How am I dying to self?
Speaker 1:but this you know we're called, we're called to do that, so, um, so yeah yeah, well, I mean, I thank you so much for for coming and talking about this specifically and if you have any questions, you know you want to. You want to kind of help. Suzanne, come back and help wrestle us, wrestle us, wrestle with these, these thoughts. Would it be single man? Text us 737-231-0605 or go to pastorplekcom and dropa line. We would love to talk more about this, as being single in Austin, texas, is the primary experience of most people, and so we need to address that. We need to serve singles and we need to reach people with the love of Jesus, and that means meeting them right where they're at. So, married people, single people it's time to kind of view single people specifically and invite them into the ministry that you are experiencing right now. Thanks so much for watching From our house to yours. Have an awesome week.