Embracing Life's Trials

324: Adrienne and Pastor Holland join Pastor Plek this week to reflect on James chapter 1. They discuss how embracing trials as pure joy is akin to weightlifting, with God as our ever-present spotter. Ministry life is no stranger to challenges, yet it's filled with moments of triumph that keep us going. They open up about the exhaustion of unending criticism and the pressures of expectation in leadership. Despite these, there are shining moments, like a recent baptism service that reminded us of our community's impact. Together they explore how faith can stand strong against fear and self-doubt. Join Pastor Plek, Pastor Holland, and Adrienne in seeking wisdom through life's trials, trusting that God's guidance will illuminate our way.

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Transcript

Speaker 1 0:04

and welcome back to pastor plex podcast. I'm your host, pastor plec, and with me in studio today is none other than the lovely and sweet adrian plecampole hi so how are you this morning or this afternoon? What's been going on in your world? What have you been working on?

Speaker 2 0:22

You're supposed to answer, you know there's a lot of different things, so my house is in complete upheaval.

Speaker 1 0:31

Yeah, what have we had going on?

Speaker 2 0:32

We had a shower that was rebuilt by an insurance claim four years ago. That wasn't done right, so it's completely ripped out, along with the flooring in my bathroom, and that's been that way for several weeks. It's probably going to be that way for the foreseeable future. And then and then, my electricity went out. Thanks to joe ames, the neighborhood electrician, it's working at the moment, but we need a whole new panel on our electricity, so I'm waiting for them to text me that they're coming.

Speaker 1 1:02

Should this be another insurance claim?

Speaker 2 1:05

No, it shouldn't. I already asked Joe. He says not their fault, so anyway, it's just really a lot of things on top of our normal life. Football games starting today.

Speaker 1 1:15

Yeah, we got a football game tonight. Uh the uh. The bears are taking on, I think, the 49ers and we should be able to leave them in great upheaval. We do have a number one draft pick, austin Plekapol, quarterback for us, and a future number one draft pick, and jet also on the team, so we should hopefully make it to the end of that with a victory at the end.

Speaker 2 1:36

Probably not. We'd be prepared for the worst, because the emotion in the home when it's not a victory, is something to brace for.

Speaker 1 1:45

Oh my gosh, okay, well, hey, we're talking about trials. Speaking of which, we're talking about trials, and we shouldn't consider trials something to brace for, but we should consider them. Pure joy is what James said, and that's what we talked about this past Sunday. Do you remember the sermon from this past Sunday? I do, all right. What was the? Anything that stuck out to you?

Speaker 2 2:06

this past Sunday, I do. All right, what was the anything that stuck out to you? Well, I did actually really like your visual with Austin, where he was doing squats with the barbell and you said and you were holding the heavy weight behind him. I don't actually think you were holding it at first. Were you holding it the whole?

Speaker 1 2:18

time no, not the whole time he was, he was really doing it, and then, when he got really tired, that's when I held it for him. I like to think god's always holding it? Yeah, but he lets you feel the weight of it. That's true.

Speaker 2 2:32

I mean, there's never a point at which I feel like squats without the barbell are hard, much less with the barbell, with the heavier yeah.

Speaker 1 2:38

So the concept was I had austin in front of me and I talked about trials, and your heavenly father is standing right behind you. You can't see him, he's not imaginary, he's just invisible, and so whenever you're struggling, you should consider it pure joy when you're going through trials and make comments, because you know that testing your faith develops perseverance, and God is testing your faith in a really positive way, and so that's something we should totally embrace as opposed to reject.

Speaker 2 3:09

Yeah, so I liked that, I liked the visual, I thought that it was powerful to consider that what feels like my trial is really something that God is very deliberately allowing and helping me constantly through. Yeah, sometimes it feels like God like kind of allows trial while he like You've had a lot of trials recently.

Speaker 1 3:33

Actually, I feel like your life is.

Speaker 2 3:34

I feel like trials are. You know what you choose them to be, and I choose to consider a lot of things trials.

Speaker 1 3:44

Well, I do think we haven't been able to use our bathroom in like a month.

Speaker 2 3:47

But like, is that a trial? No, but it's annoying yeah it's annoying.

Speaker 1 3:51

It's an annoying trial. Oh, hey everybody, holland Gregg has just joined the studio and he's coming up to his chair. This is going to be so great and Holland Gregg, from the lead pastor at Eastside Community Church, austin, is right here. I'm super, super excited about that. We're talking about trials, holland.

Speaker 3 4:06

I got suckered in because you were late. Chris actually said 2.30, and so I'm five minutes early.

Speaker 2 4:12

Oh you're right, you are early.

Speaker 3 4:14

The internet my counseling goes till 2.15. It does Okay. So I'm really sorry if there's miscommunication, but I'm so happy to be here on Pastor Plek's podcast.

Speaker 2 4:21

Chris. A miscommunication with Chris? No, no, so.

Speaker 1 4:25

Jordan brought me in. I thought it was at 2.30. And then Jordan said let's go, you're supposed to be on the podcast. And so here I am on the podcast, and so somehow the tail is wagging the dog.

Speaker 2 4:34

You did nothing wrong, and so consider it pure joy my brother Trials of various kinds.

Speaker 3 4:39

For you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness, and let steadfastness finish its work that you may be perfect and complete. I really appreciate that.

Speaker 2 4:47

Holland said he apologizes if there was a miscommunication. That is something we're taking notes on, because you're right, Actually my Google just let me know that TwoThirtiesPodcast.

Speaker 1 4:57

Yeah, so talk to me, adrienne about some of the trials you faced, because it seems to me me, how do you know it's a trial versus an annoyance so let me just tell you what my trials are right now.

Speaker 2 5:08

Not my shower, okay. My trials are every now and then.

Speaker 2 5:15

There are things in life where I want to know the outcome I want to know the future and I feel like I go through seasons where this is a problem and I go through seasons where, like I'm not, I don't really, I'm like, I'm not worried about it, I like have faith, or sometimes like there's just enough predictability seeming predictability that I'm not feeling concerned. But currently we have a lot happening at our church. We're supposedly going to break ground and if that feels like it's actually going to happen, it's been happening in progress for five years or something, and so that's exciting. But the fact that it's so close, for some reason I get more nervous.

Speaker 1 5:58

Because it might not happen.

Speaker 2 5:59

Yeah, like there's a lot at stake now if it doesn't happen.

Speaker 3 6:02

So you're the one that does Like what do you do now that it has?

Speaker 2 6:06

And I'm the person like I would rather have control and just jump off the ship and miss the ship's arrival into the port of celebration. I would rather just jump because I can control jumping and I can figure myself out. And the distraction of figuring myself out after jumping is fun for me. I like that. It's a lot, it's a lot of stimulus, it's fun, but like staying on the boat.

Speaker 3 6:32

Yeah.

Speaker 2 6:32

That's really hard for me.

Speaker 1 6:34

Yeah, and that's my marriage Okay. So, adrian, so talk to me about uh, cause I think you're like you. I think you're a good preemptive striker. So what happens is I think you feel fear and then you preemptive strike, which sometimes can come off as self-sabotaging.

Speaker 2 6:52

Yes, because it is so okay. So the church is one example, but there's lots of things Like our kids have entered into this new stage this year, like our youngest is in kindergarten, so I have more time and um, which is exciting, um. But like there's kind of choices in how I want to spend that time and I think I feel like there I have a little bit more option for choices, and even within our parenting, like our kids can all be home and they're not necessarily demanding my attention like they used to. So there's kind of. Anyway, I think that the presence of choices has felt like.

Speaker 1 7:28

So choices are a trial is what I'm hearing.

Speaker 2 7:32

Yeah, a little bit, because it's like I'm now in this stage where I'm feeling like I need to be really tuned in to what it looks like to be obedient to God in areas where I kind of have options to God, in areas where I kind of have options, whereas up until now it's like it was like you're meeting basic needs of the kids that are kind of just you're, you're, you're going, you're going, you're tending to the people crying, the loud sort of. And it's like now it's different and now I can choose how I engage and who I engage, and like there needs to be some intentionality, which I way prefer. I way prefer this way. But it's like Ooh, this is a news, this is new and this is different. And then, on top of that, there's like okay, I think this church thing's going to work.

Speaker 1 8:10

So you might as well jump off.

Speaker 2 8:13

Well, I hope it works. But like what if it doesn't Like what if it falls apart?

Speaker 1 8:16

at this point, Aren't you the one who told me Cause I've had those feelings before Like God wouldn't take you this far, to just drop you, like I think you told me that.

Speaker 2 8:25

Yeah.

Speaker 1 8:30

Are you much better at encouraging somebody?

Speaker 2 8:31

else who's worried than to not worry yourself? Yeah, like I think if you're considering jumping, well, actually that's the problem You're not ever considering jumping, you're considering sulking in a reality and I'm like no, absolutely not, we're not doing that. If we're either jumping or we're feeling confident in what God's going to do, Can I ask a question?

Speaker 3 8:52

Is the jumping off the ship thing or the preemptive strike thing?

Speaker 2 8:57

I feel like they're connected?

Speaker 3 8:58

Is it because, like, okay, well, if the ship arrives, deliver, it doesn't go where people thought it was going to, and then all eyes are going to be on me if I'm around?

Speaker 2 9:12

and I'm going to feel rejection or feel like a failure. Okay, oh, really, cause I feel like with the parenting thing too.

Speaker 3 9:15

When you have, when you don't have choices, it's like, well, you know, no one's expecting you to do it, You're just doing it, You're just surviving, You're doing whatever you can. But now that you have choices, it's like, well, am I making the right ones? There's an extra pressure and responsibility and accountability to that that it's easier to just like well, I don't want any eyes on me. I don't want anyone thinking that I'm a failure, anyone thinking I'm doing it the wrong way.

Speaker 2 9:40

So I'd rather just get out of this shoot. There was a season where, like I could have been utilizing this three, 30 to four, 30 time a little bit better. I don't want to have that regret and I don't want to look back and the three, 30 to four 30 time.

Speaker 1 9:53

That's when all the kids are home, when they just get home from school.

Speaker 2 9:55

Right, and that's where I feel like there's this illusion of option right Because you're I'm tending to a lot of needs in that time, but probably I could be more intentional, although sometimes you are kind of reacting to the situation. There's four different people with different days that have different needs, like yesterday I held Pax on the back porch for like 30 minutes.

Speaker 1 10:15

Was that great.

Speaker 2 10:15

He was like crying. He clearly had a hard day. His teacher had a dentist appointment.

Speaker 1 10:21

She is not allowed.

Speaker 2 10:21

He had to sit on the floor in another classroom for a little bit. She is not allowed on the floor in another classroom for a little bit, and that was a lot. He wanted to talk through that. So it's like some days there's that, but then the other days there's like everyone's just happy and they come home and they kind of want to go do their own thing, and so I guess I feel like I don't want to live with regret and I I want to take them, I want to be um, I want to like take full advantage of the opportunities that I have with my kids, but then also with the church.

Speaker 2 10:44

I think it's like, yes, like I think it doesn't matter what really happens in this new season of the church, like people are going to be ticked, like for sure there's people are going to be disappointed, people will be irritated. There'll be things we could have done better. There'll be things that like, well, obviously, if you just like thought about it, and it's like I'm, we're going to have to like get all of that and I'm already like mad at the criticism.

Speaker 1 11:06

So you preempted striking anyone.

Speaker 2 11:07

Yeah, so I'm like I'd rather just leave and let everyone just sit in there Yep, look, turned out worse than you thought. Like I'd rather that than have to sit there and like endure, having God kind of do miracles and have amazing things happen, but then have to sit there and go through the growing pains of change while also getting the feedback. I just don't want to deal with it.

Speaker 3 11:34

Yeah, I feel like that's a totally normal struggle in leadership, and reality is you will never be able to escape that, never For the rest of your life.

Speaker 2 11:46

For the rest of your life Because of who you are and because of who Chris is.

Speaker 3 11:50

You are going to be in leadership somehow, no matter where you are, and therefore there's always going to be eyes on you and you're always going to have to be dealing with people's criticism and judgment. You cannot escape it, no matter what ministry environment you're in, so you might as well push everybody else off the ship.

Speaker 2 12:04

So then, how do you like engage with a soft heart? That?

Speaker 1 12:09

can extend grace. Is this a question of like? What should you do? Like, you need wisdom. In fact, there's a Bible verse that goes with that.

Speaker 3 12:16

It says— Any of you who lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all, without reproach, and it will be given him. That's right, james 1.5.

Speaker 1 12:22

Yeah, so, james, 1.5 is the answer to the problem that James presents. Wow, that is amazing. Look at how that works, he goes for the problem okay.

Speaker 3 12:39

Here is the problem. That is here and then bam, prescription right on, right on cue. I get that, though, like the desire. I deal with that. Jenny and I have talked about that a lot about like man.

Challenges and Triumphs in Ministry

Speaker 3 12:46

It's just you know the idea of like having being somewhere where not all eyes are on you and where you're, no matter what you do. Someone's going to be upset and like that just sounds really nice to be somewhere like that. But reality is like you know, if you were to quit, you jump off the ship and you're like you know what. We're just going to move off somewhere else, go be a part of some other church. In a very short period of time, you will be identified by other leaders there as people who have maturity and leadership experience, and you will be called this. You cannot avoid it, and just part of being a Christian and maturing in your faith is that you are going to be in leadership and I think you've got to learn to seek wisdom for it and understand how to be able to have peace in your heart, that's. I don't care about the approval of people. I'm okay with not pleasing everyone. I don't know.

Speaker 1 13:31

This is stuff that, like, I'm learning right now as well, what would make you, cause you to learn that your church has had some hard times financially?

Speaker 3 13:40

Hard times in all kinds of ways. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 13:43

So talk to us a little bit about that, han, like how you have sought wisdom and really share with us some of the struggles, and then how God has come through and how not jumping off the ship has been a big win.

Speaker 3 13:55

Yeah, I've wanted to jump off the ship many times.

Speaker 2 14:00

And.

Speaker 3 14:01

I've talked to you about that. There's times when you've encouraged me not to. There's times when my wife has encouraged me not to jump off the ship. There's times when I'm encouraging her not to jump. I think anytime you're dealing with ministry, it is hard and it's not unique to us.

Speaker 3 14:16

You look at letters like 2 Timothy, where it's like the last letter he wrote before he died. This is like Paul, who was like you know, he was the man. He did Like. He was an evangelist, the church planner, like a preacher. He wrote the Bible like and he would say things like at my first trial, no one stood by my side.

Speaker 3 14:35

All these people abandoned me Names, names of people that walked away from him. You know, and, and, and you know, jesus said his crucifixion. Everyone abandoned him. They, they scattered, you know, and so like it's just a reality of Christian ministry and leadership is you're going to go through times where people complain and criticize you and abandon you, and so we felt that, um, with different transitions our church has gone through with.

Speaker 3 14:59

You know, there's people who come and it's the music is too this or the music is too that, and if you, you know, it's too loud or it's not, you know we don't do enough liturgical stuff or we do too much. You know the service is too long, you know, and if you try to adjust it for these people, then you lose those people, and if you leave it the same, then you just can't please everyone, and every decision you make comes under criticism from people, and it can just be so exhausting sometimes. And so, before even getting to the part of like, how do I learn from that, I at least just want to say like we've been there and that is. It is hard, but I feel like even just a few weeks ago, when we had uh, we had a baptism service and had six baptisms, and you know and ministry is slow and where we are like it is long, slow, hard work and a very difficult to reach community with a lot of needs.

Speaker 3 15:55

But, like you know, so when you get, it was moment. You know, moments like that Sunday where you know so when you get, it was moments like that Sunday where, you know, the fellowship was so sweet and the worship was powerful and there was a testimony, powerful testimony, of what God was doing, you know. And then there was these baptisms of people we've been investing in for years and seeing their families transformed by the gospel, and like those were moments where you're just like I'm so glad I didn't quit.

Speaker 2 16:24

You know like yes, and here's what's. Here's where I partially why I've been frustrated recently is we had a service, I think it was the same day as your baptism.

Speaker 1 16:29

I think it was, cause I remember September 15th it was yours, or was yours the week before?

Speaker 2 16:33

Um, I don't remember, I think it was the same, because I think I came home and I was like scrolling social media and I saw your service and I thought oh my word, this is cool. We kind of had a similar experience, I bet. So it was our birthday service and Chris went through every year of the church and had pictures.

Speaker 2 16:49

And then there was this video that was sent out, like it was a mass text that was sent to like a random group of people at the church and it was like hey, if you feel led, send in a two-minute video as to what the church has meant for you. Which, if I'm that I'm not ever doing that, like I'm not recording a video, like I'm like okay, cool, you know, I didn't get the text, or maybe I did, I don't actually know you got the text but I was like and so in my mind I laughed.

Speaker 2 17:16

I was like that's sad that we are going to rely on people to actually do this for our service. But here we are. Well, the service comes around. It's Saturday night before the service and we were with Cody and Cody was like man, I've got all these, I've got a lot more people that have been sending in videos, and I was like people are doing that. And he was like wow, I can't believe way to go. I can't believe it worked Well. So that's kind of my attitude, like coming in to this service. Okay, yeah.

Speaker 2 17:43

On top of that, I'd been up with Chris late that night before we were looking through pictures of kids that had been born at the church. So like if you were like 18 months old and started coming, you didn't count.

Speaker 3 17:54

So we were going through and and we were fine and that was kind of a sweet thing, but it was a lot of like.

Speaker 2 18:00

It was our core group of people really. So that was like that had kind of primed me for like maybe some reflection.

Speaker 2 18:06

but I get to the service and I'm watching, I'm experiencing it and Chris is going through every year and and you realize, like stuff that felt a little bit insignificant now feels very significant as you're looking at it in hindsight and you're seeing, like even when we sent you off, like that felt significant in the moment, but watching it in the history of our church was like whoa, like we were never the same after that. And you, we, we feel that reality Right, and so that was powerful. Well then we get to this video and I am like you know how there's crying like normal, like there's tears. I'm like sobbing to the point that I have like bubbles coming out of my nose and my kids are laughing and pointing and I'm like I didn't want to reach to the front of the stage to get tissues because that would have drawn more attention. So I'm like snorting it all back into my face and I'm like I just can't believe how emotional I got and it was so powerful.

Speaker 2 19:04

And the people that inconvenienced themselves to make these videos a lot of them were individuals that you don't really think about when you think about the church, like they're not necessarily people who necessarily came to Christ here, but they're people who have been attending and who have had meaningful connections and have had genuine life change. And it's not the life change that we're always sharing about from in sermon illustrations. It's like. It's like as impactful, but a little bit more subtle and a little bit more normal. It's like they were living a normal life, feeling despair and loneliness. And that was almost more powerful because it was like we've heard a lot of our really colorful stories of amazing things that God has done. But it was like through this video, it's like you're seeing people live a very normal, mundane day in and day out, and then seeing how God has used this church to completely transform people.

Speaker 3 20:01

And that's amazing.

Speaker 2 20:01

It was super powerful and I was crying so hard because I just was shocked and I was like and some of the people were people that, like I have been at times like why is Chris spending so much time with this individual? Like this is tough, like we've got things that have to get done, we have a lot we have to do, like he has all. We have deacons, we have staff, we have elders, like of all the people that Chris is investing time in, like and and yet you saw, like what these people's testimonies revealed is like something that was kingdom expanding, not maybe like business expanding and business expanding, and I'm like, okay, that's that.

Speaker 2 20:37

It was really it was really moving and convicting for me. And then we went from that to looking at all the pictures of the kids that have grown up here, and then that was super emotional again because a lot of these kids are now in the youth group.

Speaker 2 20:48

And so it was this testimony to like what God has done and I was like, but then the very next week is when I start looking at like a lot of just black and white, is when I start looking at like a lot of just black and white, just facts of things happening and I'm just like yeah.

Speaker 2 21:04

And it it ticked me off how easily I can go from this is a, this is a miracle. God's done amazing things to like wow. This doesn't like pretty much 20% chance that this whole thing is going to like work out and that feels really frustrating, that it feels that easy for it to just.

Speaker 1 21:21

Don't get into stat projections. I just don't think that's really statistics.

Speaker 2 21:26

Do you not get into stat projections?

Navigating Criticism and Self-Doubt in Ministry

Speaker 1 21:28

Not a 20% chance. That's kind of on the low side.

Speaker 3 21:31

Adrian, when the Israelites were wandering in the wilderness and they got to the edge of the promised land and the 12 spies went to look in, what do you think the percent chance was that they were going to win against that? I would say zero, zero, and, and, yeah, and and so would you have come back and told that and gave a report that's like hey guys, we can't do this.

Speaker 3 21:52

No, absolutely Okay, Like like I don't know what we've been doing for 40 years, but Well, this is before the 40 years this is why they got cursed with the 40 years is because they came back faithless and said there's no way we can do it, Absolutely yeah.

Speaker 1 22:09

So I think this might be the part that I love about James 1. Let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea that is driven and tossed by the wind, for that person must not suppose to receive anything from the Lord. He's a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways there's security in doubting, though.

Speaker 2 22:27

That's the problem.

Speaker 3 22:28

It's how you protect yourself from disappointing other people and feeling rejected. And even that attitude I think of like—because I've felt this before as well Like the um, uh, you know. No, that's sad that we're going to rely on this, because if you expect, oh, people are going to send in these videos and it's going to be powerful, and then they don't, you just feel dumb and you feel, and so, to protect yourself from feeling dumb and feeling disappointed, you just kind of expect the worst from people. That way, you can never be disappointed.

Speaker 3 22:58

And that's the way that we it's one of the ways I think we like have to cope or not have to, but sometimes try to cope with the fear of disappointment and rejection in ministry, and so, anyway, I feel like it's like all related that we, we try to position ourselves in a way where we, where we're not going to be hurt by disappointment.

Speaker 2 23:20

And I think I struggle because there's times like when I first came on staff and I started to do events like family events. People were into that and they were excited.

Speaker 1 23:27

A lot of applause.

Speaker 2 23:28

It didn't matter if the event stunk. It was the best thing that we'd ever done of this type in the history of the church, and so it was like lots of encouragement and that felt really good. And I think that as time went on, like now, pulling off an event it's just a zero. It's like, yeah, we did, and it's not really a zero. It's like, well, we probably could have done this better or this, and it doesn't matter that the event probably this year will be better than the last three years years.

Speaker 2 23:54

The reality is like our standard has just been set higher and so I have to go at this event with the same passion and conviction and excitement that I had three years ago, knowing that the standard that people have for it has gone unrealistically high, most likely, and that I'm going to probably receive more negative feedback than I've ever received. But I need to. I have to still operate from a place of conviction and excitement and I feel like in my personality I'm able to do that up until the point that the event like happens and like while it's happening and while it's ending. I'm like here we go and I've start. I start protecting myself for all the things coming.

Speaker 2 24:35

And that's like that's feels sad to me. It feels like. It's like like gosh, you don't want to, but at the same time you could argue that me feeling really good by all the applause three years ago was like that might not have been. Maybe I shouldn't have let myself feel good by that.

Speaker 1 24:50

Maybe I should have like I don't know well you know, there's a bible verse that says let the lowly brother boast in his exaltation and let the rich in his humiliation. So the reality is like all this if you are feeling woe, is me good news. One day you're going to die and God is going to exalt you, lift you up from the pit of despair. But if you're thinking you're really awesome and better than everybody else, then you can boast in your humiliation because, like a flower in the grass, you will pass away.

Speaker 2 25:22

I think that's good, but like how is that person not? Depressed, like and here's the thing In Bible times people were hungry a lot and I'm like they were probably depressed. They're probably malnourished and generally depressed.

Speaker 1 25:32

Are you malnourished? No, are you depressed Sometimes? Yeah, so there's no correlation.

Speaker 2 25:36

Well there is. If you're malnourished, you're also depressed. Probably your brain doesn't function quite right.

Speaker 1 25:40

Okay, well, maybe, and anxious, too Anxious, I'll give you anxious.

Speaker 2 25:43

No, both they go hand in hand. The same deficit causes both.

Speaker 1 25:47

Okay, all right. Well, I guess where I'm going with this is that maybe when there's the purpose of like I've got to take care of other people, then it then also it sort of negates this like self-loathingness or self-centeredness that sort of comes along with, um, a lack of community and isolation. You start to think more about yourself when there's nobody else around. Is that true?

Speaker 2 26:11

Oh, it feels very selfish, right, self-protection feels very selfish, um, having to kind of sit there and not really enjoy the blessing that God's given me or us feels selfish Having to kind of sit there and not really enjoy the blessing that God's given me. Or us feels selfish being like, oh, I'm just, I can't really relish in this blessing and this excitement because something negative might come up. It's like as though.

Speaker 1 26:32

So what allows you to get through trial?

Speaker 2 26:34

So I think for me it has to come from.

Speaker 1 26:37

Like is there something worth it? Because I feel like what I'm hearing is on the backside of this trial is only criticism. I have to look forward to criticism.

Speaker 2 26:46

I think that you have to operate from a place of conviction and obedience and, like I'm doing this, I feel a conviction and obedience to God for what I'm doing and therefore it doesn't really matter what ends up coming as a result of that. There's an intimacy with him that I feel and a satisfaction in him that I feel.

Speaker 1 27:06

Good, but it is also a reward, and I think this is in verse 12. Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life which God has promised those who love him. The problem is, you don't value the crown of life.

Speaker 2 27:18

Right. Yes, I felt that during your sermon this week, I was like ooh you don't know what a crown of life is.

Reflecting on Crown of Life

Speaker 1 27:23

You're not sitting there going like man. I really wish I had a crown of life right now, absolutely. And it's kind of like telling one of our sons hey, a college education is awaiting you and they can't conceive of, they don't understand college education.

Speaker 2 27:36

They think like well, it's what you described in your sermon Like I think that's a better example is like explaining to jet that the feeling of not having fear on these sides, that all of your friends are doing, is a way better feeling and existence than any material thing that we could buy you. You can't, he can't comprehend that. He doesn't value that feeling because he can't he's never had that Right. And he doesn't understand. He doesn't conceptually understand himself or his environment enough to know, enough to value that.

Speaker 1 28:05

So we went to a great wolf lodge this past weekend and a jet was like terrified and I was like okay, jet and I, we're going to work on overcoming fear. That's like this is a great opportunity. We're going to go down the slide, I'm going to go with you, like we can't just live in fear. And he's like I can't. He was crying tears the whole thing and then I was like what could I buy you that you would go down that slide? And he goes a Nintendo Switch sports package. And I was like that's the thing, like that's worth your life. Yes, that's the thing, like that's worth your life. Yes, and so Did you do it?

Speaker 3 28:40

Yeah he went and did it and I I am.

Speaker 1 28:43

he did remind me about yesterday.

Speaker 2 28:45

I will I will buy it. It's so embarrassing. I'm telling you that you know.

Speaker 1 28:48

And listen. There is some things that you have to pay.

Speaker 2 28:53

Having your kid overcome fear is one that's a big deal there might have been another strategy in the tool belt, but that's the one we employed and it was effective at the end of the day.

Speaker 1 29:01

Hey, you know I'm looking for the crown of life, not the crown of criticism.

Speaker 2 29:04

But jet was I actually think if we talked him through what's better that feeling of not being scared or the feeling of getting this video game because he's not allowed to have a switch for several days now well, that's true, that so maybe the crown of life has become valuable, so um it's just trying to conceive the crown percent. Agree that I have a I struggle valuing the crown of life. I would rather value relational connection and enjoyment now right and I think that's you're hitting at.

Speaker 1 29:33

The reason why everybody struggles is they don't know what a crown of life is. They've never seen a crown of life. They've never. There's never been like crown of life awards like the Emmys or the Grammys, and they're like congratulations, adrian. You endured four children screaming all throughout their teething years. Congratulations, you get the crown of life. Everyone claps you give a speech like you would.

Speaker 2 29:55

You'd be up for that especially if speech Like you would, you'd be up for that. I wouldn't really care about that. But I think the crown of life to me is something that isn't a bunch of people clapping in an award. It's like a. It's an eternity. It's something way bigger than that.

Speaker 1 30:06

Sure, it has to be way bigger, but I think that's the concept, is we? We don't understand that. But so instead, instead of saying I want the crown of life, we then get to a blame game with God.

Speaker 2 30:27

Have you ever done this? Go like why is God doing this? He must be tempting me. Do you feel like God's tempting you when trials come, or what's your initial reaction? I feel like God is forcing me to find contentment in my circumstance. To me, that's always what a trial is, is contentment in my circumstance.

Speaker 1 30:41

To me, that's always what a trial is. Is contentment in my circumstance and I think that's good? I mean, I feel like godliness, there's great gain. Uh, contentment has great gain with godliness. I think there's a joy there that comes with a righteousness that again is the crown of life, stuff, um, that god ultimately wants us to have more of. But but, holland, have you ever met somebody that's saying like God is tempting me? Or maybe blaming God might be the better way to put that. Blaming God. Have you ever met somebody in ministry that sort of blames God for their situation? Yes, tell me what usually brings that on?

Speaker 3 31:12

Suffering and trials that feel not just a little bit difficult but totally unfair, Like I've uh. So you know someone who, um, God, I'm going to serve you and, um, I trust that if I'm serving you and doing ministry, you're going to heal my mom, You're going to heal my dad, You're going to, um, bring my spouse to Christ, or you're going to, you know, and then the thing that you are expecting doesn't happen, and it's like I thought we had a deal, and so that's where it goes to the blaming God and my experience.

Speaker 1 31:42

I think that's it. I thought we had a deal. I think there's a lot of people who live in the. I thought we had a deal kind of motif. It's a deal that you sort of conjured up.

Speaker 3 31:50

Yeah, that's not in the word anywhere, but you wanted it so bad that you kind of believed okay, believed okay. God, if I do this, then you'll do this, and we made a deal, yeah.

Speaker 1 31:58

The Bible verse that comes to mind here is 113, or 114, but each person is tempted. 15, when he is lured and enticed by his own desire, then desire, when it has conceived, gives birth to sin, and sin, when it is fully grown, brings forth death. Don't be deceived, my beloved brothers. But we are deceived a lot when we think that we can sort of manipulate God. I feel like a lot of us are like just pulling levers in life, like which one is going to get me the right outcome, as opposed to staying on the ship and enduring.

Speaker 2 32:28

Right, I agree, and I think when I I really thought I'd be married out of college and so and I thought I was doing a bunch of things right to get that, and when I didn't get that, I did feel a little. I did feel like God didn't do what he was supposed to do, like like I had done kind of my end of things. But but it was through that experience that I learned that there was a better thing that he was giving me, like it was through those years post-college, before marriage, where my personal relationship with God was better than it had ever been, more significant, more like, more personal and less uh. Well, I don't want to say more, but maybe, like in the, in the disappointment, having that intimacy spiritually felt more significant, and so I think that that was actually that was a greater blessing than the blessing of having been married out of college was, and so and I I genuinely believe that.

Speaker 2 33:26

So I think part of my issue now is I genuinely believe that if you know we're to just fall apart as a church in the next year and a half, like that, god is going to do something really great through that Like I'm not like I'm not actually afraid of what like, because I trust that God will accomplish something really great. But I think it's like I'm looking for, like I believe he'll give us something better than what we're hoping in the church if he was to take it away. I really believe that. But then I think, on the flip side, I am looking for some things to like hold on to as stabilizers over the next two or three years.

Speaker 1 34:06

Like that are like fleshly type things or spiritual yes, fleshly type things, okay, and I'm like I can't do that.

Speaker 2 34:13

if God throws the curveball, Well verse 18 says of his own will.

Speaker 1 34:17

He brought us forth by the word of truth, meaning he birthed us. He is a father who loves us and didn't I always bring this up he doesn't bring you into the world to make your life miserable and if there is suffering, he would give you the endurance for that. If there is suffering, he would give you the endurance for that, and that's why I love the word. Steadfastness is hupomeno, which is hupo under meno. Remain so, like this ability to remain under, like the steadfastness to remain under the pressure. Remain under. You don't throw it off, you don't jump off the ship, you kind of lean into it, and I think what that means is that he's birthed us to strengthen us. He's always with us, and I think that's the truth that we need to lean into when it comes to his great love for us, Because I think that's the part that we sometimes forget.

Speaker 3 35:05

Yeah, I was going to say you know the idea of remaining under and steadfast. It's like when you feel the desire to jump off the ship, that is the indicator that you are, that this is where you need to stay, because it's like God is doing something in you that can only be done through steadfastness. Like, if you jump ship, the work he's trying to do in you is not going to be complete, right, and, and if he's going to bring that work to completion, he's just going to get that somewhere else. God's committed to sanctifying you and doing that work in you. So I feel like what it looks like I brought up the 10 spies versus the two and okay, there's a 0% chance of this working and I feel like my desire to jump ship on these different things is like I'm trying to learn how to just be settled and go.

Speaker 3 35:54

Uh, if, if God hasn't told me to jump ship, then I'm going to stay on the ship until it sinks. If that's what it takes for God to do in me, what needs to be done, um, and like that's what steadfastness looks like is you're willing to go down with the ship and you're willing to take the criticism and you're willing to endure all the you know, whatever and I don't know like being once, if you can be at peace with that, like you said, contentment in your circumstances, if you can be at peace with if everyone thinks I'm a failure and everyone's disappointed and everyone's criticizing me and I can still be at peace with God, like that's a pretty mature place to be in your soul and I think that's where God wants to bring us.

Speaker 2 36:32

I agree and I think, in order to get there, the key piece to get there is confidence and what God is leading us to do, and I think that that is where I tend to struggle having that confidence, because I choose to put people in my life that all have different angles of how they're looking at stuff, and so Chris might feel confident.

Speaker 2 36:58

My parents probably don't. My closest girlfriend, 50, 50. And then my old closest girlfriend that isn't really in our lives at all. It's a crap shoot, like I don't know. So it's like I intentionally kind of have these people that are either going to be oppositional or, you know, 50-50 or completely wild cards, because I'm kind of always trying to find confidence in what God is doing through seeing it from all these different perspectives and that doesn't actually lead to confidence.

Speaker 1 37:35

Do you remember when you were trying to get Austin to sleep and you asked everybody in the world?

Speaker 2 37:39

I do this for like any big decision, yeah.

Speaker 1 37:42

And this is where, at some point, this is where the reliance on people and not involving the Holy Spirit really it just destroys me. You become a wreck of listening to the latest thing as opposed to investing in a couple people that you trust, hearing from God, reading God's word and really leaning into it, Because I felt like I watched you spiral a little bit when it was the sleeping issues and it wasn't just sleep moved out of Wells branch like any big decision when I homeschooled for that little period of time during COVID.

Speaker 2 38:15

Like I'm, I'm pulling the audience and I'm I'm intentionally pulling a very dramatically broad diff yeah.

Speaker 2 38:22

Dramatically broad audience with different values than mine, intentionally, because I'm wanting to see it from every possible angle, because I think that that's going to lead me to clarity and confidence. And it never does. It doesn't. It adds to. It adds to the chaos and I usually end up finding confidence through that. But it's very emotionally draining and taxing to go through that and I think that, like the people in my life that have a lot of self-assurance are typically not pulling an audience and sometimes I get critical of them because I'm like, well, gosh, like you kind of have some blind areas.

Speaker 1 38:58

Well, yeah, proverbs 28, 26,. Whoever trusted his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered. So I think there's a part of it where you don't want to be a fool, a fool who doesn't ask anybody. At the same time you don't want to. You have received not the spirit of the world, but the spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God. So we don't want to be timid either. We want to engage with the Holy Spirit. And then we don't want just our own little personal support club where you do you, whatever that is. We don't want to call good evil and evil good Darkness, light, light, darkness. That's a classic Isaiah 520. I think that's where those are the three ways where I'm going to abandon God's word, or abandon God's spirit, or abandon God's people, and I might have the other two things, but it leaves you lacking a lot.

Speaker 2 39:48

It does, and I think the outcome ends up being the same and that I end up trusting God and following him. But it puts me through an unnecessary amount of, I think, exhaustion, mentally, spiritually, emotionally, which is interesting.

Seeking Wisdom Through Trials and Tribulations

Speaker 1 40:06

Which is God's will for your life is what the Bible says. Actually, we should rejoice always, pray without ceasing, give thanks in all circumstances, for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you. All circumstances, giving thanks. So I feel like that might be something to kind of wrap it up with, because I think what circumstance in your life right now are you not giving thanks for and you're blaming God, not believing God?

Speaker 1 40:31

You're, in the moment, just kind of frustrated and angry and not saying I'm going to seek wisdom, for what does God want me to learn or want me to do in the midst of a trial? Because God isn't putting you through some sort of trial. Remember, he's not the author of sin, he isn't tempting you, but he does allow you to go through some hard times. And the big question you have is why. And so God wants you to have wisdom, and so he said he will give it to you. So seek God's Word, seek God's Spirit and seek God's people. All right, hey, thanks so much for watching. If you have any questions, text us at 737-231-0605 or visit us at pastorplekcom and drop us a message there. We'd love to hear from you, from our house to yours. Have an awesome week of worship.