Pastor Plek's Podcast
Pastor Plek's Podcast
What is Advent?
333: Have you ever wondered about the rich history and meaning behind Advent candles? We invite you to join Pastor Holland Greig, Bri and Pablo Mota, and Cody Sparks on an enlightening journey through time, exploring how Advent traditions emerged from the early Christian era. Together, they uncover the symbolism of the candles' colors and names, adding a sprinkle of humor to debates about their order and significance. From the royal purple to the joyful pink, we shed light on the cherished customs surrounding the Prophecy, Bethlehem, Shepherd's, and Angels' candles, leading up to the central Christ candle.
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and welcome back to pastor plex podcast. I'm your host, pastor plec, and joining me from the east side is none other than pastor holland greg. Welcome back, holland. Merry christmas, everyone, and you know two of one of the most fabulous people that we know. We've got brie and her husband, pablo uh mota, and we're so excited about them. Welcome back, guys.
Speaker 3:Hello.
Speaker 1:We're really looking forward for some more spicy insight into whatever we're going to talk about. Please bring the flavor, and then also from the Cody Sparks band. Mr Cody Sparks, how are you Still here? Yep, still here.
Speaker 1:So we've got one question and this first one is on a near and dear to everyone's heart is what is up with advent, what's the meaning of the colors of the advent candles? That's what everybody wants to know, and the answer to that where is this tradition from? Okay, so if you want to go catholic, yeah, you could say it's Catholic but pre-Catholic, so it goes all the way back to the 300, 400s and really Advent candles specifically, and kind of celebrating Advent in preparation for the coming of Christ was also sort of one of those things. Against Priscillaanism, which was a Gnostic-inspired movement which you're probably all wondering. What exactly is Priscillaanism, which was a Gnostic-inspired movement, which you're probably all wondering? What exactly is Priscillaanism? That would be derived from the Gnostic doctrines talked by Marcus, an Egyptian from Memphis not Memphis, tennessee, but Memphis, egypt. Priscillaanism was later considered a heresy by both Eastern Orthodox Church and the Roman Catholic Church and essentially it got into Gnostic doctrine, which is essentially the light, like body is bad, the light and spirit is good. That's basically it.
Speaker 1:And so now, what does that have to do with Advent? Well, advent was one of those preparation things. In the same way that lent prepares you for easter, advent prepares you for christmas and um. So the catholics sort of dominated for that for a while. And then christians were like it's not just about christmas and easters, hence the term christers, who only come to church on Christmas and Easter. But instead of fighting the culture and being like consumerism is bad, stop giving presents.
Speaker 1:Protestants sort of got on board with Advent and were like you know what, why don't we just talk about scripture that relates to hope, love, joy and peace? And that would probably be a big win. And so that's what we've been doing. And so the Advent candles the color purple is meaning of royalty, and then the one pink candle is joy, and it's always joy, and everyone sort of debates what the order should be. Is it hope, love, joy, peace? Is it hope, peace, joy, love? But no one ever gets the pink one wrong, unless you're holland, and that is because it's. Everybody knows it's joy, not love but the order doesn't matter.
Speaker 2:Even though when you see pink you think love, it's not love it's joy.
Speaker 1:that's right, because that comes from the heresy of St Valentine.
Speaker 2:It comes from many different places. Maybe we don't know where it comes from.
Speaker 1:Anyway, yeah, red is the color of my heart. The rose-colored vestments is really what it comes from, I think from the back in the day, when everyone wore vestments because those were awesome. Some people still wear vestments, they do. What's a vestment for the audience? Back in the day when everyone wore vestments because those were awesome and vestments don't just. Some people still wear vestments, they do, and they're awesome. What's a vestment for the audience? A vestment is like a. You know how you have a robe as a priest or a Lutheran or a liturgical pastor, but not only vestments. You decorate your whole church with the colors of the year. So there you go.
Speaker 2:Okay, Chris, if you know so much about the Advent candles, what is the first candle called? It is called the Hope Candle. Wrong. It represents hope, but it is called the Prophecy Candle.
Speaker 1:I thought, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:Second candle it symbolizes peace and is called the Peace Candle. Does he know anything about Advent? It's the Bethlehem Candle, peace, and is called the Peace candle. Does he know anything about Advent? I just, it's the Bethlehem candle, symbolizing peace and preparation, reflecting Mary and Joseph's journey to Bethlehem. The third candle is called the Celebration candle Shepherd's candle. That was close0 for 3. But who's counting? Fourth candle symbolizes love and is called the I love you candle.
Speaker 4:It is not the pink candle or red.
Speaker 2:The angels candle symbolizing love and the message of God's love that the angels announced that Christ brought. The only problem I have is that you have three problems.
Speaker 1:I have several problems is that everybody has different definitions of different candles, because some churches do hope love, then joy, then peace, and then some people do hope peace, joy, love. Some people do peace, hope, joy, love.
Speaker 4:Guys you, want to know what really matters. Joy, that sinner candle.
Speaker 1:And that is called the what candle, christ candle. That's the only one anyone needs to know All matters. Joy, that's center candle, and that is called the what candle. Christ's candle, that's the only one anyone needs to know. All right, there we go. I would get there. I got it right. I was just testing you. I was just allowing you to win Because, unlike in ping pong, you have to run a day. You don't.
Speaker 5:You have to go there.
Speaker 1:All right, you know what? Well, that's where we've all been all day.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, listen, I had to make sure that all the order was set right back in the world when I beat you like four times in a row, I didn't bring it up on the podcast.
Speaker 1:No, but that's okay, because we're now in a new dispensation of ping pong. I'm not dispensational, all right. So anyway, that's the Advent candle. Uh, hopefully everyone understands and sees that I think the biggest thing is, in a time where Advent is, or in a time when the whole culture is is thinking about Santa Claus, we want the, the, the people of faith, we think about God, and that's why Advent calendars are super helpful. Adrian designed a, an Advent, an Advent devotional for families. So make sure you guys check that out, because it's super helpful to kind of get your family oriented towards Christ as opposed to towards Claus.
Speaker 1:Right, claus, like Santa Claus? Yeah, I just was trying to do an alliteration there. It didn't quite work, but yeah, and I'm not thumbs down on Santa. There didn't quite work, but yeah, I'm not and I'm not thumbs down on santa. Actually, I saw I got into a minor facebook debate, uh, because there's a lot of anti-santa claus people out there, and I was like I don't get angry about going to disney world and taking pictures with the um, disney princesses or the or the whatevers, or like if you go to, uh, I guess the only one close to us is like the Santa, what's it called SeaWorld and they have, like their little world, fiesta Texas or Fiesta Texas.
Speaker 1:There you go and you go next to all the characters. You can go to all the characters, take pictures with them. Nobody gets angry about that. But you go, sit down, take a picture with Santa. All right, go ahead. Pablo, yeah, we know why not tell your kids he's fake and take a picture with him, or what? Why do you take pictures with Mickey Mouse? No, tell the truth, we don't take pictures with Mickey Mouse. When I was at West Point, people would run up to me take a picture with me. They didn't know me, they didn't care, but they just wanted to take a picture with a cadet. Say they'd been to West Point. Like there he is, there's a real one. Or like when you go.
Speaker 5:Key word real, a real one, uh, or like when you go keyword real.
Speaker 1:Okay, there's a real character. It's a real character. You know, saint nicholas.
Speaker 2:Saint nicholas is a character, but I'm saying, yeah, it's like a character so if I, if I were to steel man the uh, santa claus argument, uh, someone who was devoted to bringing joy to children, saint nick, who is who is devoted to bringing joy to children? St Nick, who is, who is devoted to Orthodox, you know doctrine, and he punched Arian out.
Speaker 1:What else do you want, right he's he's.
Speaker 2:He's a godly man, he's a man's man. He's a man's man. Punches out heretics in the face. Um gave gifts to children. Yep, um cared for orphans and inspiring, and so the you know the idea of the Santa in the sleigh with the reindeer and all that there are. If I were trying to really support that, I'd be like. There's themes and principles of generosity.
Speaker 4:Agreed.
Speaker 2:Of love of you know the Christmas spirit of gift giving and caring for others, and you can take those principles and celebrate them in a mythical character based on a real character.
Speaker 4:Right, I was going to say fiction, yeah, just never lie to your kids.
Speaker 1:That's my big thing. Like never once do we ever say Santa was real and so that's a big deal. And so while the rest of the world wants to tell your kids about santa, you just go. And so my kids were always the the ones that made sure everyone knew at school that santa was not real doing god's work doing god's work, destroying christmas. One idea of santa was real.
Speaker 4:It was a real guy. Yeah, it was. So I mean technically, yeah, you could say it is a real guy. You just don't have to say he has reindeer.
Speaker 1:Right, but it's a mascot. He's the mascot of Christmas. I have no problem with mascots Like who's your favorite football team.
Speaker 5:Niners. Okay, do you guys have a. Well, yeah, what's your mascot? A?
Speaker 4:big.
Speaker 5:I don't think so.
Speaker 4:It's like a gold miner guy, digger, minor guy.
Speaker 1:Digger.
Speaker 3:Who's your favorite team? The Lions.
Speaker 1:Okay, if you went to Detroit, to Ford Field and you got on the field with them and you saw the mascot, would you take a picture?
Speaker 2:Yes, and I have Okay so if the truth comes out, pablo, it wasn't me. This is your household.
Speaker 1:This is your household. This is your household leading her astray.
Speaker 4:You guys have a horrible mascot.
Speaker 1:You only have one yeah, like the point, like you guys kind of got yeah.
Speaker 5:I don't know, yeah, just I mean it's the gold rush of 1849 right, that's what? Yeah, just a dude dressed up as a number. No, I'm sure we have. I'm sure we dressed up as a number. That would make sense. Your mascot is a guy dressed up as a number.
Speaker 3:That would make sense. I think your mascot is a guy dressed up as a football player.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, anyways, all right, so back to the lecture at hand. So you guys are like adamant, non-santa, like don't even acknowledge Santa Claus.
Speaker 3:I mean we'll acknowledge that this is something the world does but we're not going to do it?
Speaker 1:Are you one of those that say, like if you rearrange the, rearrange the letters his name is satan.
Speaker 5:No, I wouldn't go that far. Okay, that's the one I was disputing. Been there before, but you know, yeah, I think we've gotten past that for me.
Speaker 3:I just don't get the point like, if we're gonna let our kids know it's not real, then why are we even gonna like they're gonna get the gifts from and they're going to know it's from us anyways. So where's the fun of Santa?
Speaker 2:Have you ever tricked a child before?
Speaker 4:They do not do Halloween, it's really fun. They don't do Halloween. We'll also say right, what's that the Halloween deal? Oh yeah. Deal two oh yeah.
Speaker 2:So some of us don't want to worship demonic spirits. Worship demonic spirits, yeah, if you want to, that's between you and me.
Speaker 4:I don't say anything. I was just saying that I was here when this podcast happened. Yeah, not on it, but here.
Speaker 3:Softened on Halloween because we had to post a Halloween event for Apartment Life and we used it as a evangelical evangelizing.
Speaker 1:Shocking how that can happen. Tricking Tricksters Santa.
Speaker 3:Claus, I not going to tell my child. Santa Claus is real. I never said you had to tell your kid Santa's real. If they know it's not real what's the point of doing it at?
Speaker 1:all? Don't you pretend things all the time? Are you not going to play any pretend?
Speaker 4:You don't have imagination.
Speaker 1:You're not going to do Imagination Station. You're not going to do Lord of the Rings.
Speaker 4:No, whoa, uh-oh here we go. That is anathema.
Speaker 1:Is that not, lord of the Rings?
Speaker 3:Like the movie. You know it's Christian. You know what else?
Speaker 5:is.
Speaker 3:Christian Jesus.
Speaker 1:I'm just saying Anathema over here, is this not true?
Speaker 2:I don't know, I'm speechless. Even Jesus told stories.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so did.
Speaker 1:Jesus only deal With bible stories? Not true. I am, I don't know, I'm speechless. Even Jesus told stories. Yeah, so did Jesus only deal with Bible stories?
Speaker 3:I just don't Like. Why am I going to tell my kid, hey, this is from a pretend person.
Speaker 1:No, you don't say that. No, no, I'm not.
Speaker 2:I'm saying like hey, I'm confused, so no you don't say so when your kid, you know, picks up like a stick and is like look, dad, I'm a knight, you're going to go. No, you're not. It's a stick and you're a kid. No, I'm not going to lie to you, you're not a knight.
Speaker 3:Santa is what I'm not understanding.
Speaker 2:Oh boy.
Speaker 3:Like, if I have a daughter and she wants to dress up as a princess, dress up as a princess, I don't care.
Speaker 2:But she's not because you are not. Okay, I can explain.
Speaker 3:Specifically.
Speaker 1:What if she wants? Yeah, okay.
Speaker 3:Like. So what do you do with your kids? You say Santa's not real, but here's a gift from Santa.
Speaker 1:No, I don't say there's a gift from Santa, but the idea of Santa isn't a bad thing.
Speaker 3:But we'll go do pictures with Santa, because that's fun. If they want pictures with Santa, take pictures with Santa. Absolutely no, santa. But they will not have gifts, I say from santa, even though I tell them santa's not real right okay, yeah, I'm fine with that yeah of
Speaker 1:course you can take a picture of sam yeah, I'm saying but but it's like it's fun to go get hot chocolate and santa gives you a candy cane and that's where you learn where you're. Hey, like you know, like tell them what you want for christmas and it's not they know. I mean, they're not I. You don't have to be that intelligent to look at Santa and go like that's probably not the guy in the North Pole and, you know, chug on the beard a little bit, but we don't even it's pretend.
Speaker 4:It's like this is pretend Santa, but the idea of Santa, and what he did isn't necessarily bad thing.
Speaker 1:Giving to others. That gives an opportunity for us to talk about.
Speaker 4:This season is more about giving than receiving.
Speaker 1:Yep gives an opportunity. This season is more about giving than receiving yep, so we talk about who santa was in the line, because there's nothing you have to wait there for forever. And then that also gives you opportunity to evangelize, because you're in a line, stuck there with people who have kids as well that are probably not behaving.
Speaker 4:Hey, make sure you're doing a birthday cake for jesus and sing happy birthday on christmas too. That is very true. Just, you're going to go against everything you know. Make sure you do happy birthday.
Speaker 5:He wasn't actually born on Christmas.
Speaker 4:I understand that but hey, Well then you can't celebrate Christmas at all. Hey, if it's a made-up story?
Speaker 2:I'm not as cutthroat as Pablo is making it seem All right, all right, I think you can legitimately, like you, you know have your home, be that Christmas is all about. You know this, I don't know modernized version of Santa who's a gift giver or he gives coal, you know, and it can become all about that. And if that's all you talk about at Christmas and you don't talk about the birth of Christ, you don't talk about the incarnation, advent, all these actual, like legitimate, christian, substantial things, yeah, you're not discipling your kids.
Speaker 4:That Jesus is the reason for the season. Yes, there you go. Buy yourself a picture.
Speaker 2:To be able to say Advent. The season of Advent, the holiday of Christmas, celebrating the incarnation, the birth of Christ, is wonderful. And you know we also have St Nicholas, who gift giver and, uh, you know, cared for orphans. And you know someone who was a champion of uh Christological doctrine, like true doctrine about Christ. He was someone who believed in Christ.
Speaker 1:I mean literally plunge Arian in the face.
Speaker 2:I think it's a, it's a cool opportunity. So we don't tell our kids you know Santa's real and he's going to come down the chimney and all that. They know it's make-believe, but you know it's still in good fun. Our kids will get pictures of Santa and we do talk about St Nick and gift-giving and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:And that he knocked out Arian. What else do you want?
Speaker 3:What's that I said?
Speaker 2:that I'm getting my kids kids gifts. I want you know like that's from your dad.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I got you.
Speaker 1:I was always grateful when I got gifts from Santa Claus, I didn't have to write a thank you card.
Speaker 3:Did your parents make you write a thank you card to them?
Speaker 1:No, they made me write. Well, no, but no, I can. Actually I did. I think maybe I had to, I can't remember now, but I had to write it to everybody else, and so whenever I saw Santa, I just knew oh no, thank you card.
Speaker 4:Minus one. Does that also mean you're not going to use the Grinch to make a kid be good?
Speaker 1:No, oh no, no, you mean the elf on the shelf.
Speaker 3:No the Grinch. Hey, the Grinch shows up.
Speaker 4:Grinch will take all your stuff, man.
Speaker 1:Oh hey, if you don't, if you don't go, and I'll show, pick up your stuff, grinch will come yeah I mean that like, listen, there is something we said for some good old solid fear to put into a kid about not getting presents, but I just don't think you need it. Yeah, I, I don't. I don't think you need it, the belt's good enough yeah, the belt is good. Pablo moto with some parents.
Speaker 5:Podcast right there. Belt is good enough, by the way no, it's not.
Speaker 4:It's not dead. Touch the screen, it's on. Rob would have told us right, rob See. Anyways, thank you for your concern, though.
Speaker 1:Alright, we're going to move on to the next subject.
Speaker 4:I'd like to see him and my brother get on one about parenting. Oh boy, that'd be fun.
Speaker 1:Let's go from Christmas to Thanksgiving. As you know, we had Thanksgiving back every Thanksgiving and the past couple of years. It actually happened by accident Because I think a couple of years ago we did like a dinner on Sunday night to celebrate the Thanksgiving back and to find out how much we gave. And then, for some reason, we told devin about it and said hey, devin, do you want to be in charge of that? She's like yeah, and then so she took it from. Like just a dinner we all gathered around and, you know, had paper plates and potluck and it was not very good because it was terrible 10 years ago because everybody's in their 20s. They bought, brought chips to the potluck. That was about it. But we went from that. She says why don't we do something really fancy? And so last year we did a public library. That was the first one. That was the very first one ever. It was amazing. And then this year we went to the Oasis. Are you familiar with the Oasis? Yes, it's in Lake Travis.
Speaker 2:I've been there Multiple times.
Speaker 1:Multiple times Best sunset in Texas.
Speaker 2:Oh beautiful, it's beautiful, best sunset. Plastic cups that you can take home. I have a bunch. The fajitas for one is plenty to split on a date. By the way, okay, if you're trying to do a nice date for a little cheap, split the fajitas for one, take the plastic cups Home. It's a good deal.
Speaker 4:It's a pretty good deal you got a souvenir Comes with it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, hey, listen, you could just write. And you write in like black Sharpie Holland and Jenny, forever. That's right, that's right, all right. So this year we went to the Oasis and we had the Cody Sparks band and then the following day we said, hey, everyone get money. And over the course of the week we ended up raising $134,000. Crazy, all right, now we got this message about that, all right, ready. Here it is. The poor have a message to the elites of the WCC.
Speaker 1:Black tie only $1,000 a table dinner event. Now, it was $1,000 a table, but it was actually $125 a person. So if you're just going for yourself, it's $125. But if you got in with 10 other people, it was only $100 a plate. Or someone could just sponsor a table and buy it for other people, which happened a lot, or you could serve. Technically, you could serve, you could serve and be a whole part of the whole deal, whole deal, all right. $1,000 a table dinner event.
Speaker 1:They aspire to emulate the wealthy Christian elite, hoping to one day achieve their level of status and superficiality. The only reason they do what they do is for other people to see them. They make the little scripture boxes they wear bigger and bigger and they make the tassels on their prayer clothes long enough for people to notice them. These men love to have the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues. They love for people to show respect to them in the marketplace and to call them teacher. Matthew 23, 5. Perhaps it was the gala. Perhaps if the gala were labeled as a Jewish fundraiser, the message would resonate more clearly.
Speaker 5:What so Wow?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 5:So insightful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so do you have a thumbs down on fundraisers Brie?
Speaker 3:Not even close.
Speaker 1:Okay, Give me your thoughts on the. I don't know who this person is. I have no idea, but they did send the message twice just to make sure I got it.
Speaker 2:It sounds like they're saying that the real reason for doing this gala was to, like, look fancy and elite and pat yourselves on the back and make people think you're respectable or something, and exclude the poor. Is that what the yeah, I don't know. I'm trying to interpret it and so like. Therefore, you know you're you're wrong and you're hypocrites and you're just like the kind of wealthy pharisees of jesus's day. Yeah, is that what they're saying?
Speaker 5:yep, it's pretty much to separate the elites from the non-elites yeah and yeah.
Speaker 2:Something that would would, um like, shame the poor who could not afford 125 dollars or a thousand dollar table that they're not invited, they're not welcome. A way to kind of like make a gap between the rich and the poor in the church and make the poor feel bad.
Speaker 4:Well, if that's the case, then they are not allowed to use benevolence. I just want to be clear on that. If you have a problem with the money and the income, then you can't use it of how it gets raised.
Speaker 2:It sounds like they wanted to be invited and they felt like they weren't welcome because they didn't have the money to come.
Speaker 1:Right, and if they had just probably asked, they probably would have been come on in.
Speaker 3:I have two thoughts. One, the whole reason we're doing it is to help people like you. If it wasn't for this, we wouldn't have $134,000 to extend to someone like you, right? Yeah, like if it wasn't for this, we wouldn't have 134 000 to extend to someone like you. And second, I don't know if this is public, if this should be public knowledge, but last year paul and I could not afford to go and we approached evan and they waived our fee completely. What you guys got in for free.
Speaker 1:That was the whole point. Keep you, I got you. Keep you the the riffraff out. Arrest these people, oh unbelievable santa haters.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that was, should have known we want you to be there, we want you to support the church, even if it's just by your presence. Yeah and um, you know, if you get to a point where you can financially pay us back, just donate it back to the church, and that's what we did. But there was. I never once felt like, oh my gosh, it's so expensive, we're excluded. It's no expensive, we're excluded. It's no Like. I know this is a loving church. I know these are loving people. If they say no, they say no. But it was completely open arms. It was sure. Do you need any other tickets, was even asked. I'm like no, it's just us two. Like it was not. The price is there to help cover costs and to raise money, but it's not. Never is anyone excluded.
Speaker 4:Right Question for you Did you guys give anything for the auction? Yes, right, anybody could have given anything. Right, you could have made some painted picture in a poster or whatever.
Speaker 1:We had to turn down some nude pictures. Unfortunately, I'm just saying Interesting paintings. My aunt bought a long one or whatever, and you had to turn down some new pictures unfortunately I'm just saying interesting paintings.
Speaker 4:My aunt bought a longhorn, a picture of a longhorn painting or something. You bought that, uh-huh, it's I. We got home for thanksgiving. I saw it on my grandpa's like fireplace. I said that looks really familiar.
Speaker 4:She's like gosh and it was the a and m at you know, a and m texas weekend. That was great way to go. All right, this is awesome. Grandpa's gonna probably want to throw. And it was the A&M you know, A&M Texas weekend. That was great Way to go. All right, this is awesome. Grandpa's going to probably want to throw this down if he wasn't in the ER. But yeah, this makes sense.
Speaker 5:So yeah, she got that. I think this person, like you said, was probably bitter that they couldn't be there, Because it is a really fun time.
Speaker 1:Oh, it was so fun. It's an awesome event. Come on out next time.
Speaker 5:Instead of like voicing that or, you know, trying to find a way, they would rather like be anonymous and just be bitter about it. You know, and I cause, I don't know there's so many ways to go about that and I understand, like FOMO, like Ray and I were, you know, we really wanted to make it and we thought we wouldn't be able to.
Speaker 1:I'm glad we created enough FOMO that you wanted to come. I'm really excited about that.
Speaker 5:So I don't know, I think they're just bitter.
Speaker 4:Probably the name on the marquee lights.
Speaker 5:I don't think there's anything valid about what they said.
Speaker 1:Did you guys get your name up on anything?
Speaker 4:What do you mean? No, I'm not talking about wanting to miss out. That's true. Saw the name up there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you saw Cody Sparks fan. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:No, yeah, please, nobody come out and call me. I feel like the whole purpose of it is to raise money to help people who are in need, right and so.
Speaker 4:If nobody gave anything, then we would have nothing to give back. Right Giving back for a reason.
Speaker 2:Yep, the concern, like you know, you guys saying, oh man, we couldn't afford to go, but we wanted to be there and support and the response you got wasn't too bad. You know, wait around. You know, save up some money, try to come next year, or something like that it was yeah, we'd love for you to be there. I think that's the heart of Wells Branch is not to turn people away, but the purpose of the event is to say it's not like you're spending $1,000 to get some VIP recognition. That matters.
Speaker 2:If I met someone and they're like you didn't know this, but I had a $1,000 table at the Wells Branch banquet, I'd be like alright, one day, holland, it's going to be a big deal, all right okay, yeah, but I'm like to me, I'm like that meat, like that carries no kind of like so, but what I would? You know, what I would hear in that is like man, you contributed a thousand dollars to help people who are in need. Praise the lord, like that's really great. I feel like if this person, if they're concerned about like wells branch, doesn't care about the poor, like like that's what it's coming from.
Speaker 2:You're trying to exclude the poor, but the whole purpose of the event was to be able to lovingly care for the poor by meeting their needs and walking alongside them. With the love of Christ, that's what the benevolence ministry does. It's not just paying a bill, but it's praying for people, sharing the gospel with them, following up with them. It is really about compassionately caring for those who are in need and sharing the love of Christ with them. I don't know, it sounds like the person is just like to me.
Speaker 3:maybe I'm being repetitive here.
Speaker 2:It seems like they're hurt. If you're listening right now, come to the next one. You're loved, you're loved and you know there's room for you.
Speaker 1:There is room. Come to the table.
Speaker 2:No, keep going.
Speaker 1:There's room for you at the table.
Speaker 2:Next verse.
Speaker 5:That was good yeah, so Cody All right. So I thought you were going to say something yeah, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 4:I was just saying well, no, it's just also for people of the church that come here, it's not just for outsiders. So a lot of people that were here and members got help last year.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah. So it's like it was sweet how many people that were benevolence recipients came Right, came right. Yeah, it was really sweet. I was really encouraged by that. And people bought tickets and then gave all the tickets away, like they they invited people they knew that they knew wouldn't be able to afford to come. Uh, and I'm not gonna tell you who those people are because I don't want them to get any extra honor there. But uh, even if I did, the beauty is it's like that's the whole point and that was really was really sweet about it.
Speaker 1:Um, okay, what else we're gonna are we going to talk about? Yeah, all right. So the next thing I want that's where we're landing the play. But I do think what you said, like, if that's you and you're the person that's sort of frustrated for whatever reason, that people are having a party to raise money for those who are unfortunate and are poor, come be a part of the team. Like we would love to have you give us a chance to kind of love you through whatever it is you're going through and the bitterness of your soul, and we would love to walk you through grace.
Speaker 1:Okay, all right, let's move on to the next one, which is even more juicy than that. All right, and Holland is our resident expert in all things X. No, so we are really dependent upon Holland. Gregg right now. All this next answer rides on his shoulders. I'm going to pass, hopefully he doesn't feel any pressure. I told him this before he recorded. Hey, we'd love your take on the Antioch Declaration and the whole drama. Holland with Doug Wilson and James White. I think there's only a couple of us that are actually interested in this, but I would like to take. I would like a whole episode to break it down, maybe two episodes.
Speaker 1:That's what they said.
Speaker 2:It would take way more than two episodes to break it down.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love the fact that he gave us like it's probably gonna take you two episodes for this, but I wanted to kind of go through it because I feel like this is something where you've been monitoring X for a while here.
Speaker 2:No, I am familiar somewhat. I've seen some posts about it, but I've stayed out of it because I'm like this just seems like quarreling over stuff that I'm not interested in is going to be a distraction to ministry for me. So I'm somewhat familiar with it, but I don't know a lot about it.
Speaker 1:We need to know what you know, holland, you have it pulled up on your computer right there. You probably know, I have the Antioch Declaration, but what I don't have is the drama. So what's the drama?
Speaker 2:I don't really know a whole lot.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, you do know who is Doug Wilson first off, he's a pastor of a church in moscow, idaho.
Speaker 2:All right, okay. And the other guy, james white. Who's that guy? Uh, he, I think, also is a pastor and has like an apologetics ministry and does a lot of videos on apologetics type stuff so then the rift came when I'm not exactly sure, something about um, I think okay here's what he wrote Okay, go ahead.
Speaker 1:I found it. This Antioch declaration is pure cringe. That's what James White said. Then he goes. It gives Protestants in general the reputation of not being serious thinkers. Oh, who is that guy? That's Kratos, or Kratos Kratos Anonymous? Uh, twitter person? Okay, well then, how? All right, it gives Protestants in general the reputation of not being serious thinkers, not ready for the main stage. This declaration is shot through with contradictions. Let's take a look and examine it more closely.
Speaker 2:Okay, so that was related to people like talk about hitler and nazis and jews and people's views on that and uh, and this like some podcast that was like going off about hitler being like a good guy and people kind of sympathizing with that debates online. It has it's somewhat relevant to that, and then other people who have chimed in it turned into some whole debacle on X. And then I guess James White and Doug Wilson released this Antioch Declaration saying, hey, here's our statement on what we think about Jews and Hitler and Nazis and the post-war consensus and how that applies to modern, I don't know church stuff and you should sign it to show that you're like not racist, not anti-Semitic. But then a lot of people complain, saying like, okay, the way it was worded was confusing, and so I kind of got lost after all that and I was just like I don't care enough to really follow all this. It's a distraction, yeah, okay.
Speaker 4:I got lost with you guys talking about it, yeah.
Speaker 2:Right, see, even just that is like everyone already zoned out and turn this podcast off. No one's listening anymore.
Speaker 1:No one is there, like they were with us for a while.
Speaker 2:Anyway, joel Webben is your buddy, you spent the night at his house, so pretty much we know that means you are pretty much agreeing with what he said. This was back when he was at an Acts 29 church. Actually, it was before that. It was when it was a vineyard church and a buddy of mine from high school Vineyard is a little charismatic-y, I think yeah, he went vineyard to Acts 29, then left Acts 29 because they were becoming too like woke and is now here in, moved out of California, is now here in Georgetown. I think yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And but, and you asked to hang out with him, he like ditched you or did not say he wanted to. I didn't ask him. Oh, I think. Oh, bobby Pruitt asked for you. Yeah, and he goes.
Speaker 2:I have no idea. I don't know he goes. I have no idea I don't know. Bobby's in Hutto or Georgetown, right, he's right up there by him.
Speaker 1:So, but like Holland Greg, you spent the night at his house. What else do you want?
Speaker 2:His roommate at the time was my younger sister's ex-boyfriend in high school, the guy who gave me my first Bible, and then he broke up with my younger sister to not mess with our friendship, and so we I became a Christian, and then I found out he was planning a church in California and it was with Joel Webben, and so I went to go visit them one time while they were early on in their church plan long time ago. So this is way before you know it was a different, you know different time in life. Okay, but again you've. This is it was a different, you know different time in life. Okay, again, you've already lost all of your podcast listeners.
Speaker 1:No, no, they. They clearly want to know about you sleeping over at Joel Levin's house, all right. So that pretty much sums it up. It's a lot to take in. And really I think the argument of Doug Wilson is that we've got to start stop, is that we've got to stop elevating the Enlightenment period as these great thinkers Of like this gets back into.
Speaker 1:And I think there's some parts you'll agree with Thomas Jefferson, one of the famous Enlightened people, who also kind of wrote the letter about the separation of church and state, not so that church would be separate from state, but that churches would be free to worship as they saw fit. But, um, he said it, if, if there's one God, three gods or 20 gods, it doesn't matter, it doesn't pick my pocket or break my leg, so why are we making a law about it? And that was like like wow, that was genius, amazing. I think Doug Wilson is slamming that a little bit. And then, um, I think on top of that, they the part I don't understand is the against the jews part, which I can't wrap my head around fully of what the issue is. But clearly, um, there is some anti-semitic statements within doug wilson's thing, or it could be perceived as anti-Semitic statements within Doug Wilson's thing, or it could be perceived as anti-Semitic that he's saying.
Speaker 2:No, he's being as, if I understand it right, he's being accused of being like the overly gracious overly gracious to Jews of having um, yeah, of uh.
Speaker 2:Of being very like pro Israel, zionist type thing, um, and, and not like not naming okay. Of being very like pro-Israel Zionist type thing, oh God, and not like not naming okay. Judaism, talmudic Judaism specifically, is very anti-Christ. You know, it's the. You know the Talmud stating that Jesus is like burning in hell and and so that's a very anti-Christ religion. Yes, um, and, and so that's a very anti-Christ religion. People who name that and call that out saying hey, that's, this is bad, this is an anti-Christ religion, are being called anti-Semitic for. But then there's other people who are like legitimately, like, no, I hate Jewish people. Conversation going on online right now about like jewish stuff, talmudic judaism, dispensationalism, zionism, who's on what side? And again, so, like whoever asked this question, if they're looking for like a tube podcast response to this, I would say I don't know enough, like you don't know enough, no I listen, I just.
Speaker 1:But there's been my toe in and I'm already exhausted.
Speaker 2:There's like several people who have posted multiple YouTube videos. Like analyzing all this stuff, getting into it. I just haven't delved into it because I'm like I don't really care, so that's where I'm at.
Speaker 1:All right. Well, I really, man, that was, that's exactly what I knew you would deliver. Holland Cody, your thoughts, I concur, that's exactly what I knew you would deliver.
Speaker 4:Holland Cody, your thoughts. I concur, all right, any other thoughts from the gallery here.
Speaker 5:That was a lot of isms.
Speaker 1:That was. That was hey, listen. Thanks so much for watching. If you've got any questions, we'll bring Holland back up here to answer them all, because we know he's got some serious answers and the full weight of his answer will ride out on what you think of social media. Now listen, hey, text us in at 737-231-0605. And we would love to answer anything you have. We talk faith, culture, everything in between, from our house to yours. Have an awesome week of worship.